From the Archives: Patera

[Daverin]

Lots of people get very good at the second layback without using their knees. Look for Redding's 502 on Youtube. Like that, only not quite as strong.

Dear God, Reding's second layback is always something else to see. It is so aggressive its actually kind of impressive to watch. I've watched not only that, but other lifts, and yeah, I don't think he even needed to use his knees... Of course, he was also just godawful strong. And not just at pressing either. Mel Siff actually thinks Reding might have been the first person to snatch 400 lbs.

Seriously one of my favorite lifters of all time. Would they he could have had a chance to shine outside of Alexev's shadow.

[Goatamon]

Reding's 502 is by far my favorite lifting video of all time. It just looks so damn effortless. What a beast.

Real shame about the press, as it's my favorite lift. I never bought the "too hard to judge" excuse either. I mean, come on, you can see a centimeters worth of press-out in a Jerk, but you can't tell if someone did a push press? Bullshit.

[Daverin]

I think part of it is that some judges seemed to want to excuse "accidental knee". In other words, you'd see some lifters, much like Starr and Suggs suggested, not actively lock the knees. When they went to bow the first time, you'd see the knees jut forward, but they never quite actively closed and opened like you'd expect from a true attempt to get some push into the press. Actually, Reding did do this (and if anyone would like, I can get some video to show it. That said, he proved in 1968 he definitely knew how to lock the knees, since apparently it was the one last time that refs tried to get the press under control.)

The difference is that, for example, you can see the likes of Alexeev and Rigert already with bent knees before even beginning, and then only bending more and obviously imparting a more vertical motion at the start of the press, getting away with murder because of their popularity. Whereas the knees unlocked but not actively closed was more about getting a deeper bow faster, and whipping the bar. At that point, it seemed like a ref to ref decision to decide if they'd call that knee kick or not.

You could also see some lifters basically go into the first bow, but then very quickly shift the position so that it is instead the knees that were bent, and not the body bowed. This seemed to be part and parcel of the Polish style up until the lifters and refs just said fuck it and let whatever pass because the press was obviously going.

At the end of the day though, its just unfortunate fact that the press was the lift chosen to most manifest international politics, even before the Cold War. Every other explanation really is just ways to vaguely justify politically motivated decisions. It didn't help that the initial military style press was so unrealistic to perform that it was inevitable that the lift morphed from there.

[Mark Rippetoe]

From the rules for USA Strengthlifting:

Any halt in the upward motion of the bar, identified as the part of the bar between the hands,constitutes a missed attempt, as does any change in the position of the feet against the floorduring the attempt, any bending of the knees that directly contributes to the upward movementof the bar, or any active plantar flexion of the ankles.

We instruct the judges to look for any motion that lowers the level of the hips prior to the start of the upward bar movement.

[elVarouza]

If the press is contested in powerlifting how long until we see a press shirt? Someone walking out with arms locked straight up, that'd be something to see!

[Mark Rippetoe]

When they went to bow the first time, you'd see the knees jut forward, but they never quite actively closed and opened like you'd expect from a true attempt to get some push into the press. Actually, Reding did do this (and if anyone would like, I can get some video to show it.

I'd like to see that video.

[tertius]

I've always thought it would have made more sense (from one POV) to ditch the clean and jerk.

The Snatch + Clean & Press would make for a very fine combo.

[Daverin]

I'd like to see that video.

Alrighty, I'll link a couple videos. Not sure you want to be spammed the actual direct videos, so I'll link to the sites. My apologies if you would prefer it the other way.

First: Easily the best full view of how Serge lifts. Interesting proof that this style of pressing requires careful balance, given the loss of the bar.

Second: Start at 0:35 seconds, gives a good point to see him prepare for the press. Legs somewhat cut off, but you can kind of see the semblance, especially at the hips.

Third: Start at 0:48. Poor guy lost it, but again see a good side view of his pressing style. Apparently had every reason to do an excellent job at these Olympics, but gentle Serge was affected by the terrorist attacks, and may have suffered an injury in the competition training hall.

Fourth: This one starts at 1:07. This one is the 1968 Olympics, where as noted, apparently there was one last drive to clean the press up before hands were thrown in the air. It highlights how Reding's press looks when he has to keep his knees well locked.

And I have to say, pointing out the dropping of the hips as when the knees are being actively included seems a damn good way to monitor the drive. I'd say Serge barely drops hips, if at all. Better than some of the lower weight class lifters I have seen in some old footage.

[Goatamon]

I still don't understand how some people are able to press with the bar resting on their delts. The only way I can do that is if I either take a wider grip or bend my wrists or point my elbows more forward. In any case, I can't do shit like that compared to having the bar float, with the weight "resting" on my lats and triceps.

Maybe it has something to do with Reding and company being ridiculously strong.

[Mark Rippetoe]

502 has a way of pushing itself down onto your delts. How much can you press?