Page 2 of 36 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 358

Thread: This stupid bullshit will continue until Women decide to make it stop.

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    33,644

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by melody View Post
    Or, it is possible that women are fine with trans women competing and do not care to make it stop.
    Then why have men's and women's divisions at all? Would they be fine with that? Or do you mean that you're fine with it, and other women should just catch up?

    Starting Strength Seminars

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    the doldrums
    Posts
    3,949

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by melody View Post
    Or, it is possible that women are fine with trans women competing and do not care to make it stop.
    I seriously doubt this is the case with competitive elite level athletes.... no way.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    468

    Default

    I wonder what the women in sports do think about it. Not what are they allowed to say, what they actually think. In today's world, it could go either way.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Lower Saxony, GER / Thebes, GRE
    Posts
    373

    Default

    I respect and will defend trans people until the day I die. It would be nothing but hypocritical if I didn't. One point I have tried to highlight, again and again, is how common it is that I see people refusing to understand that this is not a purely hormonal issue. "Caitlyn Jenner has been taking hormones, so she can compete in stock car race driving". Oops, my snark made a guest appearance.

    Hormones can and will be manipulated into appropriate ranges. Physical changes can and will go in desired directions. That does not change the fact that the individual lived with X amount of sex hormone, which was largely responsible for the predisposition of Y amount of muscle mass and Z bone density. This is not a trans issue, it's a widely available people problem and it borders on cognitive dissonance. Few people understand (besides men = smart and strong, women = dumb and weak) that and why there are neuromuscular differences between the average male, the average female and (average does not apply here) intersexual individuals. I could be snappy and claim that is because the majority of people use their bodies for nothing but sitting on their asses all day long. As more muscle mass in the glutes is not going to be much of an advantage for the couch potato lifestyle, it is no wonder they fail to make an honest evaluation. #worldwideLP2017 could take care of this. Bottom line; this is not an observation based on aesthetics, but one on performance. Few people are qualified to judge said performance.

    On an ethical note, competitive sports must be fair. None of us want to compete in a meet where some lifters are on steroids or anybody but oneself is above the 52kg class. My current understanding is that transgender women always have an unfair advantage at competitive sports, no matter how long they have been taking hormones for. My current understanding also is that transgender men always are at a disadvantage at competitive sports, no matter how long they have been taking hormones for. But if I will stand corrected on this one day soon, I'll be glad for it.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Fernandina Bch, FL
    Posts
    139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Sense will return when people decide that sticks and stones may break their bones but names like transphobic will never hurt them. Sense will return when people decide that logic/reason/analysis are more important than feelings/subjective perception/fear of being called nasty names.
    That sucks coach. You're saying there's no hope.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Lower Saxony, GER / Thebes, GRE
    Posts
    373

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by melody View Post
    Or, it is possible that women are fine with trans women competing and do not care to make it stop.
    Would be stellar, but I don't see it happening. I'm also not certain whether there is a fast solution. I don't think we can create the transgender division, as there isn't the transgender anatomy, just like there isn't the intersexual anatomy. Do feel free to correct my English here, if needed. The idea which immediately came to mind were male, female, transman and transwoman divisions. But first off, I'm sure this will get many complaints along the lines of "It's none of your business what is or used to be in my pants". Instead of complaining or spewing vitriolic hyperbole, I too would rather hear proposals. One that is not "Keep the trannies out of sports". All of this should come from the athletes, however, and not from the public. But unfortunately athletes are not just trainees, they also are employees and entertainers. That also begs the question whether there is a market for that in our current society and economic system.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Canton, OH
    Posts
    260

    Default

    I think the big question needs to be asked: who are these doctors who are testifying in committee that a man with x years of HRT is the same (competitively) as a woman and why have they not been stripped of their MDs?

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1

    Default

    I wouldn't expect anything less from my Australia these days, last week this shit was going on:

    Female traffic light signals to go up at pedestrian crossing as Committee for Melbourne tackles 'unconscious bias' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

    39yr old bloke (''female'') crushes the national field of 25-30yr old females that are in their peak by 19kgs, what 39yr old real female would be capable of doing that with such dominance at such a late age in life???

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Mojave Desert, CA
    Posts
    1,155

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by melody View Post
    Or, it is possible that women are fine with trans women competing and do not care to make it stop.
    How often do you hear about people complaining about the evils of steroid use in sports? What you suggest here would be equivalent to saying that baseball players would be fine competing with others who use PEDs even though they, themselves, are not able to take them. True competitors simply wish for a level playing field. No matter how you argue this, this is not a level playing field at all.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,010

    Default

    My favorite quote: "It's testosterone levels which is a much more scientific way of measuring male gender, female gender than anything else that is currently known."

    That suggests to me that a man with low testosterone levels should also be allowed to compete in the women's division. Or perhaps a woman who has used certain performance enhancers/hormones (but still identifies as a woman) should compete with men. In any other context, I say live your life how you want to live it, no hormone test required. I have my preferences, you have yours.

    The one area (particularly as it relates to youth/high school/college) where I still believe biology should dictate is competitive athletics. I can imagine situations where better flexibility, for example, unfairly benefits an athlete born female who has transitioned to male. That being said, I don't understand enough to know whether biology can be "acquired." There is a difference between "transgender" and "transsexual." As I understand it, the latter involves a full physical and hormonal transition, one which perhaps evens the playing field a bit more. To be transgender doesn't necessarily even dictate the removal of the aforementioned dick and balls.

    My final question is, hormonal and developmental advantages aside, are there other, nonsexual, anatomical differences in the physiology of men and women that would create discrepancies in abilities?

Page 2 of 36 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •