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Thread: Coaching: Drag them? Bribe them? Seduction?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Critical question: When you started training them, did they come to you, or did you talk them into it?
    I suspect you know, but I did have a hand in it. Some after several long-winded discussion of the finer points of strength training and its benefits. Others just a "Drop in sometime and we'll go over it." None have sought me out. Good initiative and bad judgement on my part, but now how to proceed? What brings people in and what gets people to stay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crom View Post
    But you can still live a happy productive life in other employment that is available and has a demand.
    If I won the lottery tomorrow I'd pay off all my bills, buy a gym, and live off the trust fund money while training and coaching. Until then, well... bills have to get paid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Baker (KSC) View Post
    Another problem is the age of your demographic. 30-somethings are terrible clients. Life is too busy and they haven't experienced the negative health consequences of aging and loss of strength.

    Clue.......no one pays you for extended periods of time because barbell training is so awesome and they want a 500 lb squat. They have deeper motivations, usually fear based. 30 year olds aren't scared yet
    Thanks, Andy. This is very insightful. Sometimes I've wondered if it would be worth it to do tons of bicep curls purely as an advertising investment. "Shit, check out that guy's guns..." may be the only thing that gets the 20 and 30 somethings. What is wrong with people?

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    Assuming that it works, seduction only leads to fucking cardio.

    That may still be the best kind, but it ain't doing the program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Rowe View Post
    I suspect you know, but I did have a hand in it. Some after several long-winded discussion of the finer points of strength training and its benefits. Others just a "Drop in sometime and we'll go over it." None have sought me out. Good initiative and bad judgement on my part, but now how to proceed? What brings people in and what gets people to stay?
    Their own gumption makes them stay. Not everybody is this intelligent/motivated, even after you show them good results they cannot get anywhere else. This is why I say we are narrowcasting.

    My favorite story is that of a short, morbidly-ass obese gal, mid-20s, on the order of 5'2" and 210, diabetic-level sugars in the 250-300s, wanted some help. I put her on a more glycolytic program than I typically use, with sets of 20 leg presses and sets of 10 deadlifts. After six workouts her morning sugars were in the 80s, below 100 all day. And she quit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Rowe View Post

    How the fuck did you other people do this? I can't GIVE this shit away. People who have witnessed great results in themselves (and me) don't stick with it. I don't have the time or means for the next 1-2 years to facilitate opening up a gym myself, so I have to continue working out of the garage. I feel like I'm stuck in a loop where I need the experience coaching to get the certification, but I don't feel adequately qualified (at least on paper) to charge people and expose myself to that risk without one.
    My sense is that you just have to keep at it despite the fact its a frustrating position to be in. Maybe some of the SSC's who are not fulltime coaches would have some good insight?(Skillin, Brodie, Sully, etc). But when I was preparing for the Seminar the same thing happened to me. I gave 4 people big discounts to let me coach them so I could practice. They all got great results and none of them are still with me. Keep coaching people however you can manage it but just think of them as test subjects rather than long term prospective clients and be happy you don't have to rely on it to pay the bills yet!

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    Perhaps something can be gained in this situation by focusing on yourself. Why people leave, well: This could be because of so many different reasons. Instead of dismissing every person why not look at yourself? Perhaps there's a skillset you could sharpen/improve; perhaps not. If we discuss why they are doing what they are doing that's a different discussion entirely. I mean, the only thing you should focus on is getting clients: If everybody who leaves you categorize as "not the right age", "not motivated enough", "not smart enough": I think you are probably wrong. People want to get the benefits from being strong, so something must be stopping them and EVEN if you are correct it's just a loss of potential because in everycase there's something you could improve from that situation.

    So to summarize: Maybe people are retarded, or maybe you can improve something and it's your fault that your losing clients. I'm trying to look at what would be objectively beneficial (your mentality plays a huge role) and now it seems like it's just focused externally on other people's actions.

    Interested to hear your perspective.

    /Dino

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    Remember to that anything you give away is essentially valueless to the person. It's somewhat counterintuitive, but charging even a small amount of money for the service will make people come back a lot more consistently

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    Brodie Butland is offline Starting Strength Coach
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Arnold View Post
    My sense is that you just have to keep at it despite the fact its a frustrating position to be in. Maybe some of the SSC's who are not fulltime coaches would have some good insight?(Skillin, Brodie, Sully, etc). But when I was preparing for the Seminar the same thing happened to me. I gave 4 people big discounts to let me coach them so I could practice. They all got great results and none of them are still with me. Keep coaching people however you can manage it but just think of them as test subjects rather than long term prospective clients and be happy you don't have to rely on it to pay the bills yet!
    I think this is an excellent approach, and basically what I did. I have never had any long term clients--time being the biggest problem. But even just coaching someone for a short time is useful. In fact, if the goal is to get a SSC cert, it may be advantageous to "client hop" because then you see a wide range of skills, mistakes, strengths, weaknesses, and body types. People respond to cues and correct differently. When you do a seminar, you could be coaching a competitive power lifter followed by a complete physical idiot followed by something in between. It is helpful to see as much of the range as possible before you get to the seminar, if you can.

    Also, participating in the Technique forum and seeing the advice given in the SS Staff forum can be helpful to check how well you can diagnose problems. There is of course no substitute for live coaching experience, but anything you can do to learn how to apply the model can only help your coaching.

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    Never underestimate the effectiveness of a straight cash bribe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    My favorite story is that of a short, morbidly-ass obese gal, mid-20s, on the order of 5'2" and 210, diabetic-level sugars in the 250-300s, wanted some help. I put her on a more glycolytic program than I typically use, with sets of 20 leg presses and sets of 10 deadlifts. After six workouts her morning sugars were in the 80s, below 100 all day. And she quit.
    This might be the most infuriating series of sentences I have ever read.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Christiansen View Post
    Assuming that it works, seduction only leads to fucking cardio.

    That may still be the best kind, but it ain't doing the program.
    Clearly, you're not seducing them the same way I am. Although, tossing them across the mead hall table isn't as widely accepted as it used to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Their own gumption makes them stay. Not everybody is this intelligent/motivated, even after you show them good results they cannot get anywhere else. This is why I say we are narrowcasting.
    Well, maybe there's something to be said about people needing to work on their gumption atrophy. Maybe it would be worth it to at least call one of the CrossFit gyms with owners I can trust and see if we could work something out. It's a haul, though... may have to wait until after my little shield maiden whelps my first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    My favorite story is that of a short, morbidly-ass obese gal, mid-20s, on the order of 5'2" and 210, diabetic-level sugars in the 250-300s, wanted some help. I put her on a more glycolytic program than I typically use, with sets of 20 leg presses and sets of 10 deadlifts. After six workouts her morning sugars were in the 80s, below 100 all day. And she quit.
    It's this kind of thing that makes me want to hit people... or think that maybe Hobbes was onto something (or that Locke had no idea what shitheels people would turnout to be when all their needs were met).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Arnold View Post
    My sense is that you just have to keep at it despite the fact its a frustrating position to be in. Maybe some of the SSC's who are not fulltime coaches would have some good insight?(Skillin, Brodie, Sully, etc). But when I was preparing for the Seminar the same thing happened to me. I gave 4 people big discounts to let me coach them so I could practice. They all got great results and none of them are still with me. Keep coaching people however you can manage it but just think of them as test subjects rather than long term prospective clients and be happy you don't have to rely on it to pay the bills yet!
    Thank you, Ryan. When time allows I will redouble with all of this in mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSDino View Post
    Perhaps something can be gained in this situation by focusing on yourself. Why people leave, well: This could be because of so many different reasons. Instead of dismissing every person why not look at yourself? Perhaps there's a skillset you could sharpen/improve; perhaps not. If we discuss why they are doing what they are doing that's a different discussion entirely. I mean, the only thing you should focus on is getting clients: If everybody who leaves you categorize as "not the right age", "not motivated enough", "not smart enough": I think you are probably wrong. People want to get the benefits from being strong, so something must be stopping them and EVEN if you are correct it's just a loss of potential because in everycase there's something you could improve from that situation.

    So to summarize: Maybe people are retarded, or maybe you can improve something and it's your fault that your losing clients. I'm trying to look at what would be objectively beneficial (your mentality plays a huge role) and now it seems like it's just focused externally on other people's actions.

    Interested to hear your perspective.

    /Dino
    I'm not trying to refute you, but I do get compliments on my coaching. Maybe they're just being nice. Regardless, I'm at that place in my life where I'm fully comfortable admitting that the asshole in the room may very well be me. Being a veteran... I usually hit it off very well with other vets, but civilians I can sometimes be "too adamant" or "too loud" for. Hrm. Will definitely think on it. Handing out a survey seems to open the door for people to complain too much, but I might consider it in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisRozon View Post
    Remember to that anything you give away is essentially valueless to the person. It's somewhat counterintuitive, but charging even a small amount of money for the service will make people come back a lot more consistently
    I've been torn on what to charge, if to charge, at what point do I need a waiver? I've got two million in liability on my insurance, but I'm not covered by an LLC. Maybe NOT charging doesn't even help this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brodie Butland View Post
    I think this is an excellent approach, and basically what I did. I have never had any long term clients--time being the biggest problem. But even just coaching someone for a short time is useful. In fact, if the goal is to get a SSC cert, it may be advantageous to "client hop" because then you see a wide range of skills, mistakes, strengths, weaknesses, and body types. People respond to cues and correct differently. When you do a seminar, you could be coaching a competitive power lifter followed by a complete physical idiot followed by something in between. It is helpful to see as much of the range as possible before you get to the seminar, if you can.

    Also, participating in the Technique forum and seeing the advice given in the SS Staff forum can be helpful to check how well you can diagnose problems. There is of course no substitute for live coaching experience, but anything you can do to learn how to apply the model can only help your coaching.
    I've already been picking up on that a little. Some cues just don't penetrate. Some people just do it damn near perfectly after a brief introduction and a set or two. I'll try to just keep focusing on what I have in front of me. As for the Technique forum, I did spend a bit of time in there. I started off pretty poorly, but an ass chewing by Simma and a few months later I got better. Now, I try not to butt in if a coach is already on it (where do you people find the time?). A few times where coaches chimed in with "what he said" really felt good. I'll have to get involved again more heavily. Sometimes, it does feel like I'm a broken record because people make the same mistakes. Sometimes, it makes me second guess that I'm getting the diagnosis of their form correct. Maybe that's just something I'll have to get used to if I'm a coach.


    Thank you everyone, again, for you input.

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