Archive Article: Pajama Boy Redux

[tallison]

How interesting that Tallison fails to realize that gender means more than genitalia.

Even more fascinating that Mr. Rippetoe would be the one to make this point.

[Mark Rippetoe]

It was just lying there, Tallison. Somebody was going to.

[tallison]

And this is why Germans are going to disappear...
It's a loss since they gave us so many great men (hint: check birthrate and related thresholds).
Too bad they've even forgotten what it means or meant.
Maybe generation Z will wake up everyone, but it's too late for her.

Ha, ha, ha, Matt -- wishful thinking there -- ask a Texan where the more manly mean live, in France or a bit to the east. We're all just "Europeans", now, anyway - and we are led by a woman (though as Rip points out, that is merely a statement regarding genitalia - implying nothing with respect to character ).

[Matthew_888]

Ha, ha, ha, Matt -- wishful thinking there -- ask a Texan where the more manly mean live, in France or a bit to the east. We're all just "Europeans", now, anyway - and we are led by a woman (though as Rip points out, that is merely a statement regarding genitalia - implying nothing with respect to character ).

Isn't it fun that an emasculated German asks a Texan to arbitrate a dick contest between France and Germany?
Your balls are speaking through your effeminated brain.
You apparently do not see that you do not subscribe to your own views.
"Chassez le naturel il revient au galop!" ~ "Chase the natural it returns to the gallop!"

[tallison]

Ha, ha, ha, Matt -- wishful thinking there -- ask a Texan where the more manly mean live, in France or a bit to the east. We're all just "Europeans", now, anyway - and we are led by a woman (though as Rip points out, that is merely a statement regarding genitalia - implying nothing with respect to character ).

D'oh! I completely forgot that the nearest Texan is a Rippeteaux! OK, ask another Texan -- or anybody else, for that matter.

[Scaldrew]

Learning to do the hard stuff that has nothing do with flashy rewards because *you* have determined that it needs to be done is important, but not gendered.

Yet it is something that a vast amount of men understand where a vast amount of women simply beg to differ. There's also a level of pride and enjoyment men get out of fixing a creaky door or washing their car or trimming their beard to the point where women would probably scoff at hearing a man admit this. Women, generally, are just happy to have the door fixed, the car washed, and the beard trimmed. They can do these things or their equivalents if they so desired, but they more often than not choose to avoid doing these things when they can. When they have no other choice but to do these things, they certainly don't enjoy doing them in the moment. Big difference.

I'm not saying that makes women stupid. If anything, men who do this are stupid for wanting to put effort into things like these when they could just as easily hire someone to do these things for them. That's the city man in me talking. The country boy, raised on the sweat of my father's brow, in me is saying "fuck those men who hire others to do their work for them". But yes, very much gendered.

[Matthew_888]

So, I take it you want Europe to become more (Middle) Eastern, then.

My point is that for them, eastern Europeans, or at least the dozen I know, it's pretty clear that men and women are ≠
in many ways. Essentially different. Hierarchy is contextual and usually irrelevant most of the times b/c collaboration first,
competition second.

To them, Tallison's views are not only nuts, they are dangerous b/c to equate masculinity and femininity that much is as sensical as
jumping off a cliff, butt naked, and expecting to fly.

But if you want to "take it" in some way I never took... go ahead. It reminds me of your comment defending Degrass Tyson: you failed to
see that Sam McLeod was attacking his pushing an authority argument that invalidated both: Degrass' pretensions to be a voice of science,
and your pretension to have understood anything about anarchism.

Failing to see the ≠ between men and women, that is wishful thinking, i.e. a kind of narcissism.

Again a subject that is literally thousands of years old... studied millions of humans and yet we are discussing with almost nothing or even worse,
crazy bullshit about genders equality pushed by batshit crazy pedophiles à la Kinsey...

For those toxic ideas to have infected so many minds, like Tallison, enormous energies have been and are directed at this goal, defying the obvious...
Is it just random? Which interests could be served by those views?

"With enough thrust, even a pig can fly!".

[tallison]

Yet it is something that a vast amount of men understand where a vast amount of women simply beg to differ. There's also a level of pride and enjoyment men get out of fixing a creaky door or washing their car or trimming their beard to the point where women would probably scoff at hearing a man admit this. Women, generally, are just happy to have the door fixed, the car washed, and the beard trimmed. They can do these things or their equivalents if they so desired, but they more often than not choose to avoid doing these things when they can. When they have no other choice but to do these things, they certainly don't enjoy doing them in the moment. Big difference.

I'm not saying that makes women stupid. If anything, men who do this are stupid for wanting to put effort into things like these when they could just as easily hire someone to do these things for them. That's the city man in me talking. The country boy, raised on the sweat of my father's brow, in me is saying "fuck those men who hire others to do their work for them". But yes, very much gendered.

Scaldrew, you seem like a nice enough fella, so I don't want to put this rudely, but your generalizations about women seem to me more likely based the prejudicing of preconceived notions than on a healthy dose of impassive observation. I know women and men well, for example, who fit both sides of what you see as a gendered divide. I'm not just blowing smoke -- one of my uncle's is the best cook in the family and another is a car mechanic - my wife is probably a better mechanic (though its a close contest with her dad) which talent she applies to surgery and general wound interventions for animals as a vet (so, not cars -- though she's great with those, as well). The list goes on of both men and women who frustrate most men-are-from-mars-women-are-from-venus style attempts at categorization. Describe a non-biological trait presumably adhering to one gender or another and I will offer you a near-acquaintance counter-example. Doesn't *prove* anything, but my sense is, once you've opened yourself up to the notion that neither biology nor gender determine very much about a person, you will begin to see your own confirmation of the pattern. I think that thinking in these categories (male v female, masculine v feminine) is overly attractive (i.e., more-so than is actually warranted by the evidence) for two reasons: 1) that whole courtship thing is full of powerful emotions making these categories super-salient -- they make us want to use them to explain more than they actually explain and they are clearly not useless in certain circumscribed circumstances and 2) simpler categories make for a simpler world -- sometimes this is a fairly benign intellectual laziness -- sometimes it crushes and destroys. Regardless, I would recommend a more open view for the richness it brings to your experience far before I would worry about moralizing (though the latter can be important in some circumstances).

There are plenty of social/cultural circumstances where you can play out your gender identity and revel in it. Just don't try to make it everything - especially when setting your expectations of others in terms of proclivities or talents outside the realm of - sorry, can't find a better word - the courtship dance.

[tallison]

I say that's a confirmation bias stemming from the rather pitiful choice of women some of you seem to decide to surround yourselves with. I wonder why that is. You're missing out a lot. Hopefully it's not you who's ultimately attracting that. That would be really tragic, wouldn't it.

And *that* would be the more bracing - to say nothing of succinct - way of putting it.

[tallison]

"Chassez le naturel il revient au galop!" ~ "Chase the natural it returns to the gallop!"

More like: "Try to chase nature away and it returns at a gallop!" Sounds more like what teenage French boys say to teenage French girls in the backseat to explain/excuse their handsiness... or, do only American teenagers "park"?