How to use the alternative squat grip

[Leah Lutz]

I got red-lighted for a thumbless grip at a USAPL meet last month. This is likely why you don't see it much.

If you compete in the USAPL and are called on this, I think it is well worth an appeal to those judges. There are ALL kinds of lifters in the IPF who squat with their thumbs over, and it's supposed to be allowed in the USAPL as well. If your thumb is completely off the bar, you might get called however.

[Matt-Panz]

Matt-Panz I'm wondering why don't ask them personally instead? Mr Rippetoe is not some kind of totalitarian dictator that forces everybody within SS community to do things his way, or is he? Doctor Jordan has even his own subforum here. Also think about this: they both have an extensive background in human physiology, are Starting Strength Coaches and competetive powerlifters. Do you really think they need to ask for permission to do anything? So just ask them I'm sure they have a valid reasoning.

I don't think they need to ask permission ha ha?

I'm just curious as to why they would do that, thats all.

& after all Rip founded SS so if he really didn't want any SSC to grip the bar a certain way they wouldn't be able to.

I imagine theres all types of things that SSC's can't do to retain their SSC title, such as advocate the high bar squat over the low bar.

It just feels better on my shoulders and elbows, but this is not universally true for everyone.

Do you feel as if your elbows are higher because you bend your wrists and put your thumbs around the bar?

The overlord, Sir Rippetoe, has allowed us to squat this way after counsel with the elders Starr, Suggs, and Anderson. You'll need permission too.

Ha ha ha now this is funny.

Grip is something that I look forward to getting coached on at a seminar one day.

[Christopher Button]

Grip is something that I look forward to getting coached on at a seminar one day.

As do I, and I am making concrete plans to attend a seminar this year - I have the money saved and have renewed my passport. One of the primary reasons I need help is because of grip in the squat, which has for several years been the limiting factor in surpassing barely anything over 225. Crippling arm pain at this weight completely halts my LP, and I have tried every goddamned thing I can think of for several years to fix it: Grip width adjustments, thumbs over, thumbs under, massages, stretching, ruling out limb length discrepancies. I have no injuries to explain this, but I am now aware the bar is constantly lopsided, despite the knurling being centered and I have so far been unable to obviate this issue in training, or even determine a cause.

If a seminar could potentially address this, that alone will be worth the admission + plane ticket + accommodation just to get me back under the bar again.

[Matt-Panz]

As do I, and I am making concrete plans to attend a seminar this year - I have the money saved and have renewed my passport. One of the primary reasons I need help is because of grip in the squat, which has for several years been the limiting factor in surpassing barely anything over 225. Crippling arm pain at this weight completely halts my LP, and I have tried every goddamned thing I can think of for several years to fix it: Grip width adjustments, thumbs over, thumbs under, massages, stretching, ruling out limb length discrepancies. I have no injuries to explain this, but I am now aware the bar is constantly lopsided, despite the knurling being centered and I have so far been unable to obviate this issue in training, or even determine a cause.

If a seminar could potentially address this, that alone will be worth the admission + plane ticket + accommodation just to get me back under the bar again.

It sounds like you have many more problems than just grip if you can't squat over 225 in years nevertheless months of training. Perhaps you're an older individual who should read the barbell prescription book by Johnathon Sullivan

[Sean Herbison]

I got red-lighted for a thumbless grip at a USAPL meet last month.

This sounds so ridiculous I cannot believe it's true.

I would've asked them to show me in the rules where it says you have to have thumbs around the bar in the squat.

I had two meets last year where this was an issue. They weren't USAPL meets, but they were run by USAPL-certified judges, and the rules were stated to be the same as USAPL. The first one, I wasn't aware they weren't allowing the grip until it was time to warm up, so I had no time to argue. When I arrived at the second one, however, I saw that it was the same judges, and I headed off the issue ahead of time.

Long story short, it took me half an hour, but I finally convinced them (using their own rulebook that they had printed out and sitting there) that it is not required to have the thumb around.

I'm surprised and annoyed that this is going on at other places, but if it does, definitely argue it. Show them pictures/video from Raw Nationals of people squatting with thumbs over and getting white lights. Look up Mike T, Matt Bickford, or myself if you need specific examples. Even with the rulebook, I don't think the judges would've changed their mind if I hadn't made that part of my argument.

[platypus]

Show them pictures/video from Raw Nationals of people squatting with thumbs over and getting white lights. Look up Mike T, Matt Bickford, or myself if you need specific examples. Even with the rulebook, I don't think the judges would've changed their mind if I hadn't made that part of my argument.

That's a really good idea, will do.

[Christopher Button]

It sounds like you have many more problems than just grip if you can't squat over 225 in years nevertheless months of training. Perhaps you're an older individual who should read the barbell prescription book by Johnathon Sullivan

Nope, I'm 28. I've been on this board long enough, and digested enough of the material, to know exactly how poor my "progress" is. I'm not even guilty of failing the First Three Questions. It's not a problem with weight increase jumps, rest, calories or sleep. It's a crippling arm-pain problem, likely caused by a combination of structural and technique-related issues. If it weren't for that, I would have long since completed my linear progression.

As soon as my passport gets six months on it and becomes valid, I'm coming to a seminar.

[Matt-Panz]

There's tons of articles in the archives about arm pain and squats. There's only so many things it could possibly be -- you probably have tennis elbow.

Tennis elbow is a bitch and can be avoided in barbell training easily with just a little knowledge.

Austin Baraki's wife, I just saw, squatted 315 pounds. She is not a large women at all.

I'd say if you can't squat over 225 with years of training something is seriously wrong other than grip. Maybe you bend your back big time and you have no idea? Maybe you're a smaller set person? Maybe you should get your testosterone levels checked.

Take what I say with a grain of salt

[Scaldrew]

Grip on the squat is a serious bitch. Last year I said "fuck it" and did the novice progression in exactly the way I was supposed to, even though I had just cut from 105kg to 76kg bw (the biggest mistake I've ever made, but that's another forum post). First month in and everything was going great. I was already at 86kg bw from 3 months of premature TM and gained 1kg bw per week; my squat went from 87.5kg to 115kg sets across in the first month. But I lifted in a different gym the penultimate workout of that month and had to squat with different bars. In commercial gyms, the bars don't always have the same markings and at the time, the ones I was used to only had the snatch grip markings, not the bench grip ones. So my grip was now narrower by about a hand width and my elbows started screaming bloody murder.

It took me 14 weeks to notice the change in grip width was the cause. After having to switch that one time, I kept my grip the same thinking I wasn't doing anything differently. I don't need to tell you I tried everything. I thought about it every single day for hours at a time, I read everything I could, I watched all the videos again and again and again, I tried the pin firing protocol, I switched to high bar, I tried the thumbs around grip, I rarely and hesitantly skipped the squat when it was too bad, I did the presses before the squats just to save what little progression I could. And worst of all, I kept bulking thinking my lifts would stall otherwise, so I ended up fluffier than I intended. I still think bulking with the LP was the right thing to do, but given the problems on the squat, I should have postponed the LP alltogether. Hindsight 21/21, of course.

Buck, I hear you. It took me too long to figure it all out on my own. If I had the money, I maybe would have asked for help. I'm far too proud to admit defeat, so I'd probably have remained a sucker. But you seem to have the means, you claiming you'd go to a seminar to have this fixed and all. If I could tell you one thing, it would be to swallow your pride and just get an online coach. 6 months of bad or no squatting is no option and I'm confident that the coaches can fix your problem, even if the way to get to them is digital. Maybe you've already asked for their help on the board and that never turned out right, but if you're their client, they'll work to ensure you get to progress one way or another, even if it means high barring it for a little while. Don't be a sucker.

[Chris Lippke]

It's a crippling arm-pain problem, likely caused by a combination of structural and technique-related issues. If it weren't for that, I would have long since completed my linear progression.

If it's that bad and you've exhausted the methods suggested and the technique critiques from coaches on this forum, one of these might be cheaper than a flight/seminar (assuming that's the only thing you'd want to get out of the seminar):

http://www.roguefitness.com/sb-1-rogue-safety-squat-bar

Props for fighting against the special snowflake syndrome, but being unable to properly train due to such pain is just not productive and warrants a different course of action, in my opinion. I wouldn't consider it "giving up" if you got your squat up from 225 to 405 and just happened to use a safety bar in the process.

Be warned though, Gallagher Rippetoe might come for you (even though he's probably only talking about the manta ray things):
"And those devices that hold the bar on your back or your shoulders for you, well I can't stand to talk about them either. Except to say that anyone who uses them should be beaten with a hammer, out in the parking lot." - excerpt from Strong Enough?