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Thread: Video Game Unions and Paying People Money

  1. #41
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    • starting strength seminar april 2024
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1200cc View Post
    As is this doozy, earlier in the same post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    This is pretty funny.
    I'm not getting the punchline, I guess.

    One of the issues my department has faced is that the Board of Commissioners has, for years, prioritized special projects in their respective districts instead of needed capital improvements, like maintaining and building fire stations. As a result, portions of some existing stations have fallen into disrepair or been condemned. Due to the lack of station coverage, when ISO came to evaluate the department, some citizens' neighborhoods received a new rating that went from 3 to X. That resulted in a doubling of their insurance rates. Those are items of public concern.

    Our ability to continue to provide the expected level of service with a 14% attrition rate is a matter of public concern. The Board of Commissioners is aware of these problems, but until citizens are aware and active, the BoC will continue to allocate money to building new libraries (which sit dormant, with part time hours due to lack of use) and a $10 million animal shelter.

    Georgia just passed presumptive cancer legislation, which means that the county is on the hook if a fireman gets certain types of cancer. The union, using dues money, recognized the need, found a service that has been reportedly successful in using dogs to screen for cancer, and elected to try it. It wasn't incredibly expensive, and if it proves to be effective, it's worth a shot. Early detection helps firemen, and saves the taxpayers money. Win-win. The service was made available to all members of the department and their families, but union members got it for free.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedude47111 View Post
    You're inferring conclusions I didn't make. I recognize that if a public union drives up the cost of work then that cost has to be paid from some taxation. Does that satisfy you?
    Then why suggest a "solution" when it comes with very forseeable consequences and costs? You are defending the presence of public sector unions, by saying laws can do the trick.

    The better law is no public sector union.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by footrat View Post
    I'm not getting the punchline, I guess.
    Depending on the union and the jurisdiction, the information the union "feeds" to the media is not necessarily of the highest quality. I'm perfectly sure that your union is filled with nothing but honest people, and that your union is managed in a way that doesn't even remotely suggest anything except that the best interests of the Rank And File and the public are the sole concern. So we're obviously not talking about your union.

    And try to remember this: Nothing is free.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Depending on the union and the jurisdiction, the information the union "feeds" to the media is not necessarily of the highest quality. I'm perfectly sure that your union is filled with nothing but honest people, and that your union is managed in a way that doesn't even remotely suggest anything except that the best interests of the Rank And File and the public are the sole concern. So we're obviously not talking about your union.

    And try to remember this: Nothing is free.
    Oh, definitely. The potential for bias is profound. It is certainly the primary job of any union to put its membership first. To that effect, many a union has crushed a business or pushed for terms that cost taxpayers a great deal of money.

    As a libertarian, I think anyone should be able to unionize, even if that individual is a government employee.

    I also believe the solution to most of these problems is simply for government to have fewer employees. If services were privatized like they should be, there would be very few employees to even form public sector unions.

    I wouldn't cry if the fire service moved back toward a private service model like much of EMS. There are plenty of private fire departments, including Knox County, TN; Big Canoe, GA; and many of the departments protecting DoD facilities.

    I do enjoy living in a right to work state, though, because having the government force you to join a union to work that job is ridiculous.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by footrat View Post
    As a libertarian, I think anyone should be able to unionize, even if that individual is a government employee.
    As a libertarian, I must point out that this is not a libertarian position, if the unionized workers cannot be fired because the government makes it illegal to do so.

  6. #46
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    Quite the conundrum. The government making a law to restrict its own freedom, which also breaks libertarian principles.

    Is this where I mention that taxation is theft?

  7. #47
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    I have known several libertarian gov't employees. It must be hell.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Foster View Post
    If public sector unions were illegal what would be the best way to ensure public sector employees got fair wages and benefits?
    A union is just a market mechanism that allows labor to organize. Which it has every right to. What is important to note is that a union is a market driven entity. And as such must exist within the parameters of the market. In other words, a union can only demand compensation that the company can justify within the constraints of the market. In other words, the company must provide a good or service at price point the market will pay for. Any compensation is constrained by that reality.

    Public unions do not exist in a market. And provide a government mandated service paid for through taxation. There is no market constraint on compensation. Which is why public workers are virtually the only workers that are compensated with pensions. And public unions use tax payer dollars to lobby against tax payer interests. They demand for more compensation and higher taxes using tax payer dollars. See the problem?

    The government does not use forced labor. And must compete with private industry for workers. And as such, will have to offer comparable compensation to attract workers for similar type jobs. In other words, the market will set compensation. Just like it does for everyone that works in private industry.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I have known several libertarian gov't employees. It must be hell.
    It requires a certain amount of hypocrisy and self-loathing. But I was meant to be a fireman, and I know that every day, every call I run, is a chance to excel. I know that the citizens come first. While my paycheck satisfaction is low, my job satisfaction is extremely high. Where I work, we're usually the busiest department in the Southeast, except for Miami-Dade, which provides me with a lot of opportunities for excellence. That was my motivation to get stronger- to be better at my job.

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