"Rarely Strength is the limiting factor in the snatch."

[MBasic]

I stumbled across a post from a weightlifting coach on Instagram that I found very confusing. He proposed that most often the limiting factor in a trainees progress with the snatch is technique, and your snatch is "very rarely limited by strength".


When did Weightlifting coaches decide strength wasn't very important in a strength sport like weightlifting? What caused them to believe that technique conquers all? When did this shift in coaching principles for US weightlifting begin?

I lol'd.

Mark doesn't like when people misquote him, or take things out of context, or paraphrase incorrectly.

We should extend the same courtesy to others.

Someone asked Max about the cue "turn it over" in the catch.
So an instagram post of a fairly jacked female 75kg kilo lifter who is at the very limit of her weight class doing the snatch . . .
. . . and Max's preceding paragraph about her wrist position and shoulder rotation providing a more solid catch position . . .
. . . and how these little tweaks can add a few kgs to a person total, at that person's same given strength level at that time . . .
(lifter is a 31+ y.o x-crossfitter who came to WL'ing late in life; her technique could stand to improve I'm sure)

So all the above gets distilled down to 'they' said: "strength isn't very important" and "technique conquers all" by Mr. Wilson???
Solid work!

juggernauttrainingHey Coach what does "turn it over" mean?⠀
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Look at @chuckiewelch's wrists as she receives the bar in the catch. As the wrist folds backward the shoulder naturally rotates "internally", that which means the elbow points backward and the thumb points towards the front. ⠀
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Very rarely your snatch is limited by your strength, but more so by your technical ability. Which is why drill work for the snatch is very important.-@max_aita⠀
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Quote by: typical A-hole you bitch about:

"Mark says everyone including 55 y.o. morbidly obese novice guy should be doing the GOMAD."

[Leanne M. Lloyd]

Max Aita knows the value of strength for weightlifters. I don't know why he made that particular statement... If I had to guess, he was probably referring to trained athletes unable to snatch a reasonable submaximal % of their deadlift. Social media is rife with snippets of ideas that don't always encompass all of the nuances in the mind of the person posting. Not everyone is as great as Rip is at succinctly stating an idea while still encompassing the nuances needed to fully convey the intended meaning.

I have heard them talk about strength on the juggernaut podcast and they aren't completely clueless. I believe it was the super total training episode where Max Aita said strength is the most important thing for both weightlifting and powerlifting and that the foundation for weightlifting is powerlifting type training.

[Dave Hahn]

It's not intuitive to everyone, but the fact that someone was good at some activity doesn't mean they know how they were good at it.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Mark, I remember reading that your best snatch was about 185-225. Is this correct?

I think I snatched 82.5k once. I am not very strong, I certainly was not very strong at the time, and I have a shitty SVJ, always have.

I lol'd.

Mark doesn't like when people misquote him, or take things out of context, or paraphrase incorrectly.

We should extend the same courtesy to others.

No, I don't like it, and I'd prefer that you personally were a more careful reader, if you thought I was being hypocritical. The OP didn't reference Coach Aita, so I was responding to the typical American weightlifting coach who actually says this kind of shit. Please email Coach Aita and point this out to him, since I am absolutely certain that someone has called his attention to the obvious fact that I said he was a stupid person.

See? I knew this was a mistake.

[rashid29]

I think I snatched 82.5k once. I am not very strong, I certainly was not very strong at the time, and I have a shitty SVJ, always have.

What was your best squat at the time? With a 270kg+ squat, you are snatching less than 100kg. This represents about 30% of your squatting strength, and even smaller a percentage of your deadlifting strength. This fundamentally does not represent a lack of strength to snatch more weight. I have seen women snatch this with a squat of no more than 100kg. I have seen 42 year old IT dads who are mediocre athletes snatch more than this with a 120kg squat. I am a pretty mediocre athlete myself with a shitty vertical jump, and I have snatched close to this with a 140kg squat at the time at a bodyweight of 70kgs.

Being a shitty athlete is obviously a disadvantage in weightlifting. But nobody is so shitty an athlete that as a 100kg man with a 270+kg squat and an 82.5kg snatch they are limited by their genetics. To argue this is a cop out. In your case, I think the way to snatch more was to learn how to snatch better and train the snatch. Yours is an extreme example, but the same principle could apply to other lifters.

Weightlifting is first and foremost a strength sport. If you are a guy like Colin Burns or Norik Vardanian, your results are probably going to be best improved by adding 30kg to your squat and deadlift. But if a lifter has such a substantial disparity that they are snatching 30% of their squat, maybe it would behoove them to learn how to snatch and train the lifts.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Rashid, my boy, you really don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You weren't there, you don't know how or when I did anything, you've never seen me snatch, squat, deadlift, or SVJ. You're out of your element, Donnie.

[rashid29]

Fair enough. So to be clear, you think if an athlete in general is snatching 30% of their squat, it's because they are not strong enough to snatch more?

[Satch12879]

What was your best squat at the time? With a 270kg+ squat, you are snatching less than 100kg. This represents about 30% of your squatting strength, and even smaller a percentage of your deadlifting strength. This fundamentally does not represent a lack of strength to snatch more weight. I have seen women snatch this with a squat of no more than 100kg. I have seen 42 year old IT dads who are mediocre athletes snatch more than this with a 120kg squat. I am a pretty mediocre athlete myself with a shitty vertical jump, and I have snatched close to this with a 140kg squat at the time at a bodyweight of 70kgs.

Being a shitty athlete is obviously a disadvantage in weightlifting. But nobody is so shitty an athlete that as a 100kg man with a 270+kg squat and an 82.5kg snatch they are limited by their genetics. To argue this is a cop out. In your case, I think the way to snatch more was to learn how to snatch better and train the snatch. Yours is an extreme example, but the same principle could apply to other lifters.

Weightlifting is first and foremost a strength sport. If you are a guy like Colin Burns or Norik Vardanian, your results are probably going to be best improved by adding 30kg to your squat and deadlift. But if a lifter has such a substantial disparity that they are snatching 30% of their squat, maybe it would behoove them to learn how to snatch and train the lifts.

By this reasoning, you should be able to get your squat up to, I don't know, 600-700 lbs by just really, really working on your squat technique, no?

[Dave Wilson]

I was referencing the post by Max initially. When I asked the last three questions in my post I was referring to US weightlifting as a whole. Not Max specifically. What was confusing was his statement about technique usually being a limiting factor. I felt like it was a blanket statement downplaying the importance of strength. Maybe I just misunderstood what he was trying to convey. I don't know who he is and I didn't mean to insult him if that's what your insinuating.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Fair enough. So to be clear, you think if an athlete in general is snatching 30% of their squat, it's because they are not strong enough to snatch more?

No. not at all, and this has been discussed many times. Look it up. It has to do with SVJ.