Men's Engagement Manager?

[Brodie Butland]

I think the apprenticeship model needs to be revived immediately. This will require that basic science and engineering be taught alongside, and this will require other services be created.

I've been advocating this for a while as an alternative to the law school route for lawyers. Basically give (at least) two options to become eligible to sit for the bar exam: (1) the traditional law school route, or (2) a full-time apprenticeship under a member of the bar in good standing for three years.

If my proposal were ever adopted, I think you'd see significantly decreased tuition rates and debt loads for attorneys, since law schools now have competition, and you'd have far fewer stories of people taking on massive debt loads only to realize that they don't actually want to be a lawyer after all. I think you'd also see a greater law school emphasis on clinical courses (and attendant hiring good clinical professors) that allow students to do actual legal work, rather than the predominantly academic offerings you see now. And I think you'd even see a marginal improvement in the overall quality of attorneys, since a lot of them would now have practical experience as soon as they become licensed bar members.

I'm also aware that my proposal will almost certainly never be adopted in the states that require a law degree from an ABA-accredited law school. Ironically, the closest state to my proposal is California, which allows anyone to sit for the bar even if they don't have a law degree. (This is partly why California's bar passage rate is so low...it's literally open entry.)

[Bestafter60]

If I was a student at Princeton, after surveying the minefield that is interaction with female students, and the pervasive anti-male hysteria, I'd go off campus and find some "townie" girls to party with.

[Greg Ruhl]

The real question is, what will arise to replace colleges and universities for training and education once enough people get tired of this silly bullshit?

It's already started. Colleges offer online degrees that are in terms of the diploma identical to the on-campus version. It's already a popular option with the home-school crowd and people who want an education and not "an experience".

[Scaldrew]

Good thing my situation isn't this bad (yet). Granted, we do have to have our fingerprints taken the next time we renew our IDs (srs) and this type of politics has already entered into the University in pretty much every single position (students, faculty, dean, ...), but no mandatory bootcamps yet. Not getting my hopes up about it either. Hope I'm long gone by then.

[Pluripotent]

I think the apprenticeship model needs to be revived immediately. This will require that basic science and engineering be taught alongside, and this will require other services be created.



This is obviously by design.

You or Sully (or both?) should do a CME course for physicians concerning strength training for the elderly, what they can do, overview of evidence, and some hands on lifting experience (and maybe how to coach various problems this population is likely to have.)

[David Kirkham]

My guess is that private industry may have to get together and start setting up their own educational pipelines (Exxon, Shell, etc for engineers) for the jobs they need. They are likely to do a better job of getting kids the practical education/training they need to actually be prepared to step into the market place without the debt load.

A shame though since I believe a broader education is valuable, but universities have become nonsense rather than broad.

One of my customers is the head of engineering for a major petroleum company that we all know. We had this very conversation a few months ago. He has several $150,000-$200,000 positions he can not fill.

He says there is a severe shortage--in all fields of engineering--of guys just out of college who even minimally grasp engineering. He's talking engineering grads here. Even worse, once hired they won't work.

Every business owner I know is now training from within as much as possible. Further, every business owner I know is automating as fast as possible.

[Giri Kotte]

My guess is that private industry may have to get together and start setting up their own educational pipelines (Exxon, Shell, etc for engineers) for the jobs they need. They are likely to do a better job of getting kids the practical education/training they need to actually be prepared to step into the market place without the debt load.

A shame though since I believe a broader education is valuable, but universities have become nonsense rather than broad.

GE and quite a few engineering concerns do that to an extant but not in a dedicated manner. But that approach would solve a lot of problems as long as such a system doesn't completely narrow down a student's domain knowledge, i.e., gives the students a broader exposure.

The real question is, what will arise to replace colleges and universities for training and education once enough people get tired of this silly bullshit?

I believe such nonsense is inevitable for arts/humanities colleges

[Mark Rippetoe]

This is nuts - yeah, some dudes act macho and compensate and probably do bad things because they're super insecure about their masculinity; but that is not indicative of systemic toxic masculinity. That's so insane.

And this just started like, what, last year, right?

It be pretty scary to have to go through a company like that because what if the job gets cut out? You have to redo your "education"?

Yeah, you'd have to spend some time thinking about it.

If I was a student at Princeton, after surveying the minefield that is interaction with female students, and the pervasive anti-male hysteria, I'd go off campus and find some "townie" girls to party with.

But you'd remain enrolled in school?

You or Sully (or both?) should do a CME course for physicians concerning strength training for the elderly, what they can do, overview of evidence, and some hands on lifting experience (and maybe how to coach various problems this population is likely to have.)

Yeah buddy, that would fill up really quickly.

[Giri Kotte]

I think the apprenticeship model needs to be revived immediately. This will require that basic science and engineering be taught alongside, and this will require other services be created.

Apprenticeship works very well for many trades. Lawyering, carpentry, sports coaching etc. But not so much for medicine. The basics are too vast and voluminous for apprenticeship model to be effective out right. Doctors transition to an apprenticeship model. But I do agree that every form of education should transition to or at least involve the old school apprenticeship model. Once in a while I get to see (metrosexual?) mechanical engineers that are reluctant to get grease on to their hands!

One of my customers is the head of engineering for a major petroleum company that we all know. We had this very conversation a few months ago. He has several $150,000-$200,000 positions he can not fill.

He says there is a severe shortage--in all fields of engineering--of guys just out of college who even minimally grasp engineering. He's talking engineering grads here. Even worse, once hired they won't work.

Every business owner I know is now training from within as much as possible. Further, every business owner I know is automating as fast as possible.

This is a regular trend I see for the American multi-national I work for. Whenever they have opening for engineering jobs, they're eventually forced to recruit either Indians or Chinese with work visas. An Indian colleague who's now an American citizen observed, "It's almost like every American wants to do some degree in humanities, become a real estate agent and become a millionaire double quick. Nobody seems to be interested in being an engineer, create value, produce goods etc.!"

[footrat]

I'm sure many of you have seen Mike Rowe's constant support of skilled trade education. He asserts that there are around 6 million unfilled skilled labor jobs in the US. They simply need the workers, with the skills, and a desire to earn a paycheck.

When you mention companies adopting an internal education system- many of them don't need to, because the educatory support exists already, and the companies are ready to pay people to attend the schools.

For instance, not long ago, Caterpillar was trying to hire people and pay for them to attend UTI to learn to repair CAT heavy equipment. Those graduates would instantly walk into a job paying nearly 75k, with the ability to leave after a few years and seek even higher wages at other heavy equipment repair firms.

One of the problems is that we, as an American society, have convinced each other that a College Education is the gold standard, and it's not. It could be useful, and may be necessary for many professions. But in telling our kids they HAVE to go to college, we've explained that the alternative is having to take up employment in a "lesser" occupation, like a plumber, electrician, mechanic, welder, or some other such blue-collar trade. Without realizing it, we've relegated the skilled trades to second-class status, disregarding the fact that workers in those trades experience immense job satisfaction and often earn incredible wages. If I'd known in high school that welders can make 6 figures, my exploration of college curriculae would have been much shorter-lived, if it ever lived at all.

Ultimately, where we're at is the fault of the parents of the kids who we currently love to blame for societal downfall. It's not millenials; it's their parents. It's not going to be our kids; it's going to be our fault. I plan to raise my boys with work ethic and a never-ending desire to improve oneself. I don't care one bit if they don't go to college.