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Thread: Lifting stats in the NRL (Rugby)

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    OTOH, a quick scan of many of the other ruggers in that article were benching and squatting far more impressive numbers than those mentioned above. Then there's that photo of Marty Taupau with what looked like 6 or so Eleiko 20 kilo plates on each end of the bar deadlifting. Seems odd to have focused in on what looked like the least impressive numbers in the article.
    I think the "reporting thing" is fucking some of this up.

    Outside of rugby league training, he does work in a weightlifting gym where an emphasis is placed on low reps for power. While he boasts a maintenance weight of 160 kilos for two reps in the dead lifts, he usually sits around 200 throughout the season.
    well, here he is deadlifting 310: MARTY TAUPAU 310 KG DEADLIFT - YouTube
    . . .and they only mention that at the very end of the article for some reason.
    yeah, he ramped it, and the "whoo hoo" shit made me want to throw up.
    But it left the floor pretty strong/fast.
    He's a lot stronger than a 200/440# deadlift in season is the point.

    There's some pluses to the article though . . . its not all bad.
    While he’s built like a chiselled statue, in a strange twist, Taupau said his lifting is helping him with his running game.
    (I know, i know: "strange twist")

    “A lot of people say you can be strong but you can’t be fast and fit,” he [Taupau] said.

    “I’ve been taught to hold my breath in during strength training. Lifting heavy increases my lung capacity to a certain degree. That helps when I run. I can take in a lot of air. Last year I was playing backrow and I played 80 minutes and I was doing my strength training.”

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBasic View Post
    . . .and they only mention that at the very end of the article for some reason.
    yeah, he ramped it, and the "whoo hoo" shit made me want to throw up.
    But it left the floor pretty strong/fast.
    He's a lot stronger than a 200/440# deadlift in season is the point.
    Basic, you make the same error in logic every time you post. We don't a shit about Marty Taupau because he's only one guy. We are indicting the system, and one outlier is irrelevant. Completely and totally irrelevant.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Post a link to the training programs of 3 teams in your rugby link. We'll see.
    I'm sure with every training program there are faults. It is hard to find exact training programs (why would any team publish this?), but here is a cobbling together of what different clubs do.

    1) Bath Rugby Club. This isn't a detailed program, just a note to the general public on training, but the Bath Rugby Club (pro team) on "how rugby players train." https://www.bathrugby.co.uk/how-do-rugby-players-train. The only lifts they recommend are Squats, Deadlifts, Power Cleans, Bench Press and Military Press. Sound familiar? The rep range for squats and deadlifts is pegged at: 4 sets of 3 reps.

    The strength coach added here Page not found | Breaking the Gainline: The Hard Yards

    “The standards we set are relative to body weight (BW). They are 2x BW squat/deadlift, 1.5xBW bench press, 1.3BW incline bench and bench pull and 0.5xBW pull-ups. Olympics lifts are more tailored but players should be capable of producing power outputs of 2000w. Players can and should hit these standards(...) for example, England’s 114kg (17st13lbs) Geoff Parling, a star of the autumn, should theoretically be lifting: 171kg Bench Press, 228kg Squat/Deadlift, 148.2kg Incline Bench/Bench Pull and performing pull-ups with 57kg on his back.

    Here is a video of an upper body session: Highlights of ME upper body session with Bath Rugby strength coach Jameson Mola - YouTube. The bench pressing is heavy and the form is great.

    2) Below is the player Chris Robshaw of Harlequins talking.

    "Pre-season we would be doing more hypertrophy sessions. We might do that in the first phase of pre-season, so for three to four weeks. Then once we’ve got that, the next three weeks we would be doing strength-based. Then throughout the season it’s more strength-based maintenance really. We’re doing potentially sets of four and then between four and six reps (...) I’m probably in the middle. We vary it, because we come back a little bit later in pre-season so as forwards we’re playing a little bit of catch up. So I’ll probably bench four fours (four sets of four reps) on 120kg, shoulder press probably four fours on 95kg and squat probably 140kg for four fours. Then you’ve got the props who are probably doing 200kg with the squats." How to pack on muscle mass like England rugby star Chris Robshaw | JOE.co.uk

    An article on his club's training:
    All the players in the Harlequins gym, from hulking 17-stone forwards like Chris Robshaw and Joe Marler to athletic powerhouses like Danny Care and Mike Brown, share the same foundation to their strength-training routines – and it is surprisingly old-fashioned.
    “We tend to be very traditional with our strength training,” explains the club’s Head of Human Performance John Dams, who oversees the players’ physical training. “Our general preparatory exercises are tried and tested and we don’t tend to vary them much. Squats, deadlifts and bench presses form a large part of our strength programme.”
    Although players also do Olympic lifts, plyometric drills, medicine ball work and sled drills, their primary focus is always on these three basic but powerful exercises. Additional gains in strength come from adapting these exercises over time."
    Five surprising gym secrets of pro rugby players - Telegraph

    Here is another link related to their training: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fi...g-make-single/. The strength coach is a former competitive strongman who states "We build our programme on these traditional methods. If guys can squat, they will squat. If they can’t squat then it will be a variation of a squat as their main leg stimulus. The larger the compound lift – so the more joints it’s using – the bigger the stimulus." The video in the link quotes the best deadlift as 595 for 3 reps.

    In a video here they are training and the coach asks the player to squat 170 kg for 5 reps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rg-dl6-qA0. Squats look to be close to depth (can't tell) and the player at the end is saying "c'mon brother, sets of 5 brother."

    3) Here is an official USA rugby training program recommended for use by any American rugby player: https://assets.usarugby.org/docs/rugbyu/ep3-goonan.pdf. Higher reps for a longer period, but based around compound lifts and reps drop to 5s or lower prior to the season and completely during the season.

    4) This is a general guide from South Africa from untrained to professionals and has a lot of stupid shit in it: http://www.sarugby.co.za/boksmart/pd...or%20rugby.pdf.

    Even so if you skip to "Advanced Strength Program" for programs 20-26 it contains power cleans, squats, rows, shoulder press, bench press, chins, dips, high pulls, push press, "bent leg" deadlift. The rep/sets are generally pegged at 6,6,4,4.

    The in-season lifting (#27) is basically squats, deadlifts, bench press for 4 sets of 5 and power cleans and push presses for sets of 6, with a lot of stupid shit added on top.

    Keep in mind that it is generally agreed that you can't make gains during the season as the games are too demanding, so it is basically just maintenance. Many of the players play 30-35 games a season (not all in consecutive weeks), so they might only have 8-10 weeks off consecutively.

    Rugby is NOT primarily a strength sport. As I noted the players run as much as 7000 metres a game. That said you do still need to be strong.

    The top players play as many as 35 games a season. The games are fucking brutal. It is impossible to make gains during the season and perform the next Saturday. A top player has about 8-12 weeks off, not six months. They are also perpetually injured.

    You are basing your opinion on one shit article.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeriHughes View Post
    The issue is the definition of 'heavy'. The point here is as professional, full-time, athletes in what is primarily a strength sport, the numbers these guys are putting up are surprisingly low. That based on the fact that, just on this site, there are plenty of over 30s people fitting training around work and family life who are at or above those numbers. Given an annual 6 month off-season, freedom to totally optimise recovery, and pro-athlete genetics these guys could be much stronger than they are, despite the need to have decent levels of endurance as well.

    Hard to conclude anything other than either strength isn't a major priority for them (which would be an odd decision given its importance to their sport), or their coaches don't know what strong looks like or how to get someone there. The amount of bragging about squats and pulls in the low 200s suggests the latter.
    I quoted the South African standard as: 1.8 (kg/kg.bw) for squats and 1.5 for bench press. So a 250 lbs guy has to squat 450 and bench 375 as a minimum. Is that too light?

  4. #24
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    Thanks for the links. You saved us a lot of time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MBasic View Post
    I think the team "All Blacks" was mentioned somewhere in this thread . . . .

    Keep in mind this is their training on a Thursday and they are playing a test match on the Saturday. You can't lift heavy on Thursday and perform on Saturday. During the season:
    Saturday - Game
    Sunday - Fucked up from game
    Monday - Less fucked up, able to lift a bit
    Tuesday - Lift
    Wednesday - Lift
    Thursday - Can't lift heavy as need to be recovered by Saturday so something like you see here
    Friday - Rest as playing next day

    Repeat for 30 weeks.

  6. #26
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    Are you a rugby fan, Gene?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Are you a rugby fan, Gene?
    Hate it.

  8. #28
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    Me too.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene Hawley View Post
    I'm sure with every training program there are faults. It is hard to find exact training programs (why would any team publish this?), but here is a cobbling together of what different clubs do.

    1) Bath Rugby Club. This isn't a detailed program, just a note to the general public on training, but the Bath Rugby Club (pro team) on "how rugby players train." https://www.bathrugby.co.uk/how-do-rugby-players-train. The only lifts they recommend are Squats, Deadlifts, Power Cleans, Bench Press and Military Press. Sound familiar? The rep range for squats and deadlifts is pegged at: 4 sets of 3 reps.

    The strength coach added here Page not found | Breaking the Gainline: The Hard Yards

    “The standards we set are relative to body weight (BW). They are 2x BW squat/deadlift, 1.5xBW bench press, 1.3BW incline bench and bench pull and 0.5xBW pull-ups. Olympics lifts are more tailored but players should be capable of producing power outputs of 2000w. Players can and should hit these standards(...) for example, England’s 114kg (17st13lbs) Geoff Parling, a star of the autumn, should theoretically be lifting: 171kg Bench Press, 228kg Squat/Deadlift, 148.2kg Incline Bench/Bench Pull and performing pull-ups with 57kg on his back.

    Here is a video of an upper body session: Highlights of ME upper body session with Bath Rugby strength coach Jameson Mola - YouTube. The bench pressing is heavy and the form is great.

    2) Below is the player Chris Robshaw of Harlequins talking.

    "Pre-season we would be doing more hypertrophy sessions. We might do that in the first phase of pre-season, so for three to four weeks. Then once we’ve got that, the next three weeks we would be doing strength-based. Then throughout the season it’s more strength-based maintenance really. We’re doing potentially sets of four and then between four and six reps (...) I’m probably in the middle. We vary it, because we come back a little bit later in pre-season so as forwards we’re playing a little bit of catch up. So I’ll probably bench four fours (four sets of four reps) on 120kg, shoulder press probably four fours on 95kg and squat probably 140kg for four fours. Then you’ve got the props who are probably doing 200kg with the squats." How to pack on muscle mass like England rugby star Chris Robshaw | JOE.co.uk

    An article on his club's training:
    All the players in the Harlequins gym, from hulking 17-stone forwards like Chris Robshaw and Joe Marler to athletic powerhouses like Danny Care and Mike Brown, share the same foundation to their strength-training routines – and it is surprisingly old-fashioned.
    “We tend to be very traditional with our strength training,” explains the club’s Head of Human Performance John Dams, who oversees the players’ physical training. “Our general preparatory exercises are tried and tested and we don’t tend to vary them much. Squats, deadlifts and bench presses form a large part of our strength programme.”
    Although players also do Olympic lifts, plyometric drills, medicine ball work and sled drills, their primary focus is always on these three basic but powerful exercises. Additional gains in strength come from adapting these exercises over time."
    Five surprising gym secrets of pro rugby players - Telegraph

    Here is another link related to their training: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fi...g-make-single/. The strength coach is a former competitive strongman who states "We build our programme on these traditional methods. If guys can squat, they will squat. If they can’t squat then it will be a variation of a squat as their main leg stimulus. The larger the compound lift – so the more joints it’s using – the bigger the stimulus." The video in the link quotes the best deadlift as 595 for 3 reps.

    In a video here they are training and the coach asks the player to squat 170 kg for 5 reps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rg-dl6-qA0. Squats look to be close to depth (can't tell) and the player at the end is saying "c'mon brother, sets of 5 brother."

    3) Here is an official USA rugby training program recommended for use by any American rugby player: https://assets.usarugby.org/docs/rugbyu/ep3-goonan.pdf. Higher reps for a longer period, but based around compound lifts and reps drop to 5s or lower prior to the season and completely during the season.

    4) This is a general guide from South Africa from untrained to professionals and has a lot of stupid shit in it: http://www.sarugby.co.za/boksmart/pd...or%20rugby.pdf.

    Even so if you skip to "Advanced Strength Program" for programs 20-26 it contains power cleans, squats, rows, shoulder press, bench press, chins, dips, high pulls, push press, "bent leg" deadlift. The rep/sets are generally pegged at 6,6,4,4.

    The in-season lifting (#27) is basically squats, deadlifts, bench press for 4 sets of 5 and power cleans and push presses for sets of 6, with a lot of stupid shit added on top.

    Keep in mind that it is generally agreed that you can't make gains during the season as the games are too demanding, so it is basically just maintenance. Many of the players play 30-35 games a season (not all in consecutive weeks), so they might only have 8-10 weeks off consecutively.

    Rugby is NOT primarily a strength sport. As I noted the players run as much as 7000 metres a game. That said you do still need to be strong.

    The top players play as many as 35 games a season. The games are fucking brutal. It is impossible to make gains during the season and perform the next Saturday. A top player has about 8-12 weeks off, not six months. They are also perpetually injured.

    You are basing your opinion on one shit article.



    I quoted the South African standard as: 1.8 (kg/kg.bw) for squats and 1.5 for bench press. So a 250 lbs guy has to squat 450 and bench 375 as a minimum. Is that too light?
    You don't think a 450 squat is pretty light for a 250lb professional athlete?

    These guys should be squatting that for reps before they leave high school. Where they do have a 6 month off season.

  10. #30
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    starting strength coach development program
    Go sign up for your local club. Play a game on Saturday. The whole game. Try your hardest. Try and squat 450 lbs on Monday. Get back to me. Do this for 35 straight weeks and get back to me again.

    Read this and it might help. They only schedule one big strength session a week due to recovery demands. Hard to add weight to the bar in that instance. Even harder if you can't train at all due to injury.

    Richie McCaw'''s burning desire | Stuff.co.nz

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