600mg caffeine daily

[Hyperfluxe]

So I've looked at your recommendations and some of the research, as you said the range for caffeine's ergogenic aid appears to be at 3-9mg/kg bodyweight. I weigh 76kg and have been taking around 500-550mg daily (hard to tell because I split a 200mg cap open), do you think there would be any problems if I took 600mg daily (because it's annoying to split a cap open and not know how much you're taking)? That would fall at 8mg/kg caffeine for me. I train first thing in the morning, I take my caffeine as soon as I wake up and I'm lifting an hour later with BCAA's/waxy maize, and I go to sleep 16 hours post caffeine ingestion. Would there be any negative sleep effects that I wouldn't be able to perceive?

If I'm not mistaken, there would be ~100mg caffeine left in my bloodstream come bed time. I haven't noticed anything so far regarding sleep quality but that doesn't mean it's not there. Also, if I'm correct the data has shown that 6mg/kg caffeine is the sweet spot in terms of performance and minimizing side effects, because although the 9mg/kg group performed better especially at 90%+ loads, they had a lot more side effects. I take my caffeine with l-theanine by the way. I was planning on tapering my caffeine during a deload/low fatigue week.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

No problem with 600mg, the concentration of caffeine after roughly 2 half lives is unlikely to be a problem unless you're exquisitely sensitive to caffeine, and I wouldn't put too much stock in small sample-sized studies touting subjective side effects from 9mg/kg. It might be too much for you dosing wise (9mg/kg), but I wouldn't necessarily rule it out.

[gtl]

Related, but potentially hijack, so I apologize.

Jordan, I know there has been discussion around 'relying' on caffeine for workouts, etc lately. I read your comments on Mike T's post a while back regarding this, and have heard other people say the same. I hate to pose this type of question where I say "Out of these scenarios, which is best...", but if you don't mind:

1). Coffee in the morning, 1-2 cups to get going and no caffeine throughout the day, 200-400mg preworkout later (depending on tolerance/etc)
2). Coffee in the morning, maybe a more mid-late morning, and again in the afternoon, potentially 1-2 hours preworkout (timing not important)

I guess what I'm asking, is which is worse: the large dose of caffeine, or staying caffeinated throughout the day? The reason I ask is I typically fall in scenario #1 but may have a small cup during the day if I'm really really dragging, but sometimes hold out knowing I have preworkout with me and am training later. I think I've found myself a little too reliant on preworkout, but I don't think that would change necessarily my need for caffeine at work and pushing through for a 6pm workout.

acute dose vs chronic dose I guess.. feel free to just tell me "it depends" :-)

Thanks

[coleossus]

No problem with 600mg, the concentration of caffeine after roughly 2 half lives is unlikely to be a problem unless you're exquisitely sensitive to caffeine, and I wouldn't put too much stock in small sample-sized studies touting subjective side effects from 9mg/kg. It might be too much for you dosing wise (9mg/kg), but I wouldn't necessarily rule it out.

Does the dosing recommendation apply to significantly obese trainees? Or should we be dosing at levels closer to what we should be at favorable bodyfat levels?

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Related, but potentially hijack, so I apologize.

Jordan, I know there has been discussion around 'relying' on caffeine for workouts, etc lately. I read your comments on Mike T's post a while back regarding this, and have heard other people say the same. I hate to pose this type of question where I say "Out of these scenarios, which is best...", but if you don't mind:

1). Coffee in the morning, 1-2 cups to get going and no caffeine throughout the day, 200-400mg preworkout later (depending on tolerance/etc)
2). Coffee in the morning, maybe a more mid-late morning, and again in the afternoon, potentially 1-2 hours preworkout (timing not important)

I guess what I'm asking, is which is worse: the large dose of caffeine, or staying caffeinated throughout the day? The reason I ask is I typically fall in scenario #1 but may have a small cup during the day if I'm really really dragging, but sometimes hold out knowing I have preworkout with me and am training later. I think I've found myself a little too reliant on preworkout, but I don't think that would change necessarily my need for caffeine at work and pushing through for a 6pm workout.

acute dose vs chronic dose I guess.. feel free to just tell me "it depends" :-)

Thanks

I have a bias that the acute dosing likely is better for sleep quality, caffeine tolerance/sensitivity (there's a psychological component here too), and long term performance. I suspect that chronically dosing caffeine adds a layer of stress to the "environment" for the lifter/athlete, but I'm not sure if I could prove this in any meaningful way. It's just what I think...but could be totally wrong.

Does the dosing recommendation apply to significantly obese trainees? Or should we be dosing at levels closer to what we should be at favorable bodyfat levels?

For the significantly obese person, I would not use caffeine as an ergogenic aid- not because it's unhealthy (bc it's not), but because performance is unlikely to be a primary concern. Rather, I might use caffeine as an appetite suppressant at other times.