A Few Questions

[craze9]

Hi Jordan,

First thank you for providing this resource, along with Barbell Medicine. It has truly changed my approach to training and I only wish I'd found it years earlier. I've done a fair amount of reading including searching this forum but have a few questions I hope you won't mind answering.

I'm 5'10, 31 yrs old. Over the summer I used the "To Be A Beast" Fat Loss macros to cut down from 194 lbs to 167 lbs. I have since been reverse dieting, keeping protein constant (at 210 grams) and adding 20g carbs and 5g fat every few days. Right now I'm 166.8 lbs, 9.6% bodyfat (per a recent DXA scan). My goal is to add as much lean mass as possible in the next 6 months while minimizing bodyfat gain (and hopefully set some new PRs along the way). Per the scale, I have not gained any weight yet, at 2800 calories for the past week. Today I increased to 2,925. 330c/85f/210p.


1) Do those macros look good? What do you think about some minor carb cycling, primarily because I get hungrier on training days. E.g. Training Days: 350/80/210; Off Days: 270/100/220. I train 2 days on / 1 day off.


2) Leucine. I've been reading about it, and your recommendation to get 3-4g per meal to maximize MPS. The thing is, I like to eat certain foods that have protein but a very low leucine content, meaning that I'm generally not hitting 3g / leucine in every meal.

According to my calculations, w/ good protein sources (I use greek yogurt, eggs, milk, chicken, turkey, and am starting to add more beef and fish), I'd generally need about 40g protein per meal to get 3g leucine. Factoring in protein from bread, pasta, oats, vegetables, and the fact that I eat 5 meals / day on Training days, it's actually difficult to hit the leucine target within my protein macro limit, which is already on the high side compared to your TBAB "muscle gain" recommendation.

Should I A) Find a way to decrease non-leucine rich protein sources (e.g. sub white bread for whole wheat), B) Increase total daily protein intake (to 220 or 230?), C) Not worry about only getting 2-2.5 g leucine in some meals.


3) If you go over (or under) daily macros, should you adjust the next day? E.g., if I somehow go over my calorie goal on Monday with 500 calories of protein and fat, should I decrease my target macros on Tuesday by an equivalent number? Does the approach differ if one is cutting vs gaining?

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

1) Do those macros look good? What do you think about some minor carb cycling, primarily because I get hungrier on training days. E.g. Training Days: 350/80/210; Off Days: 270/100/220. I train 2 days on / 1 day off.

They look fine, but I wouldn't carb cycle. I think if you want to gain muscle, you're going to need more macros (for more cals, obviously) and since your carbs are already relatively high, there's no need to take an artificially low or higher day in my opinion. Just keep adding fuel.

2) Leucine. I've been reading about it, and your recommendation to get 3-4g per meal to maximize MPS. The thing is, I like to eat certain foods that have protein but a very low leucine content, meaning that I'm generally not hitting 3g / leucine in every meal.

Like what?

According to my calculations, w/ good protein sources (I use greek yogurt, eggs, milk, chicken, turkey, and am starting to add more beef and fish), I'd generally need about 40g protein per meal to get 3g leucine. Factoring in protein from bread, pasta, oats, vegetables, and the fact that I eat 5 meals / day on Training days, it's actually difficult to hit the leucine target within my protein macro limit, which is already on the high side compared to your TBAB "muscle gain" recommendation.

About 4-5oz or 20-30g of protein from any of the sources you listed is going to get you right about 3g leucine by itself. Combined with the trace proteins of your carbs (which are synergistic with protein), you're likely fine unless you are getting <20g protein from animal per meal

3) If you go over (or under) daily macros, should you adjust the next day? E.g., if I somehow go over my calorie goal on Monday with 500 calories of protein and fat, should I decrease my target macros on Tuesday by an equivalent number? Does the approach differ if one is cutting vs gaining?

No, I just try to be compliant the next day and this is my general rule of thumb

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

1) Do those macros look good? What do you think about some minor carb cycling, primarily because I get hungrier on training days. E.g. Training Days: 350/80/210; Off Days: 270/100/220. I train 2 days on / 1 day off.

They look fine, but I wouldn't carb cycle. I think if you want to gain muscle, you're going to need more macros (for more cals, obviously) and since your carbs are already relatively high, there's no need to take an artificially low or higher day in my opinion. Just keep adding fuel.

2) Leucine. I've been reading about it, and your recommendation to get 3-4g per meal to maximize MPS. The thing is, I like to eat certain foods that have protein but a very low leucine content, meaning that I'm generally not hitting 3g / leucine in every meal.

Like what?

According to my calculations, w/ good protein sources (I use greek yogurt, eggs, milk, chicken, turkey, and am starting to add more beef and fish), I'd generally need about 40g protein per meal to get 3g leucine. Factoring in protein from bread, pasta, oats, vegetables, and the fact that I eat 5 meals / day on Training days, it's actually difficult to hit the leucine target within my protein macro limit, which is already on the high side compared to your TBAB "muscle gain" recommendation.

About 4-5oz or 20-30g of protein from any of the sources you listed is going to get you right about 3g leucine by itself. Combined with the trace proteins of your carbs (which are synergistic with protein), you're likely fine unless you are getting <20g protein from animal per meal

3) If you go over (or under) daily macros, should you adjust the next day? E.g., if I somehow go over my calorie goal on Monday with 500 calories of protein and fat, should I decrease my target macros on Tuesday by an equivalent number? Does the approach differ if one is cutting vs gaining?

No, I just try to be compliant the next day and this is my general rule of thumb

[craze9]

They look fine, but I wouldn't carb cycle. I think if you want to gain muscle, you're going to need more macros (for more cals, obviously) and since your carbs are already relatively high, there's no need to take an artificially low or higher day in my opinion. Just keep adding fuel.

Makes sense, thanks.

Like what?

About 4-5oz or 20-30g of protein from any of the sources you listed is going to get you right about 3g leucine by itself. Combined with the trace proteins of your carbs (which are synergistic with protein), you're likely fine unless you are getting <20g protein from animal per meal

I was going by this chart: http://www.wheyoflife.org/sites/defa...mmon-Foods.pdf

My first 2 meals of the day usually include:

4 whole eggs - 24g protein
2 pieces 21 grain bread - 10 g protein

(34g total but 10g of which contributes virtually nothing to leucine?)

8 oz Siggi's plain yogurt - 23g protein
6 oz raspberries - 2g protein
Protein and Fiber Hot Oatmeal - 10g protein

(35 g total but 12g with little leucine.)


For dinner I usually eat a big-ish piece of meat with a lot of vegetables and a carb source like sweet potatoes or whole grain pasta and the protein count can get very high. 1 bag of broccoli = 12g protein, 300g sweet potato = 9g, 8 oz chicken breast = 52g. Plus a few grams from other vegetables/dessert and I'm pushing 80g in that meal. So I've started eating less meat, here, but I like eating meat.

If the first two meals look sufficient re: leucine then I can fit in the big protein dinner, but when I (recently, after reading more about leucine) bump the early meals up to 40-50g protein each that it becomes tougher to stay under the macro total.

No, I just try to be compliant the next day and this is my general rule of thumb

Cool! One follow-up related to alcohol -- I've seen you recommend treating alcohol either as just carbs or a combination of carbs/fat. However, given that alcohol is essentially a non-nutritive energy source -- is not going to help with recovery or promote MPS -- I'm wondering if there's value in ignoring it re: macro totals, while trying to gain weight. For example, if I happen to drink 300 calories of whiskey one night, I'd still hit all my normal macros and just count the alcohol as a surplus, rather than count it against carbs/fat. My reasoning being that I'd rather get the additional nutrients to facilitate recovery / muscle growth even if it means slightly greater surplus and perhaps more fat storage. Does this make any sense?

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Cool! One follow-up related to alcohol -- I've seen you recommend treating alcohol either as just carbs or a combination of carbs/fat. However, given that alcohol is essentially a non-nutritive energy source -- is not going to help with recovery or promote MPS -- I'm wondering if there's value in ignoring it re: macro totals, while trying to gain weight. For example, if I happen to drink 300 calories of whiskey one night, I'd still hit all my normal macros and just count the alcohol as a surplus, rather than count it against carbs/fat. My reasoning being that I'd rather get the additional nutrients to facilitate recovery / muscle growth even if it means slightly greater surplus and perhaps more fat storage. Does this make any sense?

No because alcohol is somewhat toxic to muscle. If adding "more calories", I'd rather you get them from something that could potentially improve recovery/muscle protein synthesis.