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Thread: Why am I always tired?

  1. #11
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    I thought it was common knowledge that selenium, zinc and Vitamin A are needed for adequate T4 to T3 conversion? I am not good at digging up literature, but google reveals a ton of papers. I don't know if it's good research though. Anyway, I swear every time I take a 200mg selenomethionine it feels like a caffeine pill in terms of wakefulness. I'd rather have prescription T3 from a doctor though instead of buying a supplement. Looks like I'll be seeing the endo in November-December, that sucks but I've survived till now.

    Off-topic question for Jordan: what are truly common nutrients that one should really supplement with in a 1st world country? I am sure you'd agree that "deficiencies" are severely overblown by the alternative community and health blogs. Examine also says the same thing but say that Vitamin D3, magnesium and K2 are what most are missing. Do you think zinc should fall in that list too?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_dean_curtis View Post
    Dr J,
    I would refer you to the book by Dr. Datis Kharrazian, "Why Do I Still Have Thyroid Symptoms When My Lab Tests Are Normal?"
    Tons of references in there. Lots of good info too. For your convenience, the link is
    The Thyroid Book | Hashimotos Hypothyroidism Fatigue

    There also a good website from "the paleo mom". Don't know if you are ok posting links in your forum, but here goes:
    The Autoimmune Protocol - The Paleo Mom
    She has a book too. Her PhD is in a related field, fairly solid on using studies to back up her recommendations.

    If you have the time, it is worth while reading.

    All,
    Yea, I am pretty strict diet wise. No grains at all, only fermented raw dairy, etc. Need to eat more veges though, starting that now
    It does make a big difference in symptoms.

    HTH
    Thanks for sharing. The thing is that the clinical implications of the in vitro lab work or plausible physiological mechanisms are not always tightly correlated. I find this occurs so often in my own self education when thinking about an issue, digging into the literature, then coming back full circle to human trials that show no difference, on balance. Good food for thought, certainly. Will have to keep digging and exploring, but I would caution those who may have hypothyroid or other related pathologies from putting too much stock in stuff like this without evidence showing clear clinical benefit without significant risks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperfluxe View Post
    I thought it was common knowledge that selenium, zinc and Vitamin A are needed for adequate T4 to T3 conversion? I am not good at digging up literature, but google reveals a ton of papers. I don't know if it's good research though.
    Needed, yes- but does supplementation help in hypothyroid folks? Doesn't appear so unless they are deficient, have a particular etiology causing low peripheral conversion, etc.

    Anyway, I swear every time I take a 200mg selenomethionine it feels like a caffeine pill in terms of wakefulness. I'd rather have prescription T3 from a doctor though instead of buying a supplement. Looks like I'll be seeing the endo in November-December, that sucks but I've survived till now.
    Surely by now you're well aware of the the placebo effect...not saying that's what is going on entirely, but it's not outside the realm of possibilities.

    Off-topic question for Jordan: what are truly common nutrients that one should really supplement with in a 1st world country? I am sure you'd agree that "deficiencies" are severely overblown by the alternative community and health blogs. Examine also says the same thing but say that Vitamin D3, magnesium and K2 are what most are missing. Do you think zinc should fall in that list too?
    None besides MAYBE vitamin D3. I don't think supplemental vitamin D3 has a clear benefit in most folks, but rather low levels are a marker of other things going on. Still, it's not clear enough for me to recommend against it entirely and there's some decent data supporting a modest dose for those who are deficient, elderly, or who live in northern latitudes without additional risk factors (renal stones). K2 supplementation is WAY less clear and mag and zinc almost certainly do not need to be supplemented in an apparently healthy adult who is eating ad libitum.

  3. #13
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    A lot of people report feeling poorly on a T4 only regimen. Natural dessicated thyroid (NDT) supplies T4, T3, T2, and T1 and a large amount of people report feeling better once switching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spals View Post
    A lot of people report feeling poorly on a T4 only regimen. Natural dessicated thyroid (NDT) supplies T4, T3, T2, and T1 and a large amount of people report feeling better once switching.
    Source?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    Would you say this is good evidence for your suggestion?
    Not hard scientific studies, no. But my initial suggestion was based on anecdotes - hence the "many people report", not "science shows".

    My family members prefer NDT and my doctor, who is a leading hormone doctor, prescribed me NDT. Again, just anecdotes. But it could always be worth a try for him if he is still having issues with his current prescription regimen.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    T
    I don't think supplemental vitamin D3 has a clear benefit in most folks, but rather low levels are a marker of other things going on.
    such as? Curious since I've twice tested low on D3 in the last 4 months.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by spals View Post
    Not hard scientific studies, no. But my initial suggestion was based on anecdotes - hence the "many people report", not "science shows".

    My family members prefer NDT and my doctor, who is a leading hormone doctor, prescribed me NDT. Again, just anecdotes. But it could always be worth a try for him if he is still having issues with his current prescription regimen.
    Right and my issue is with the verbiage "many". The thing is, thyroid disease is pretty complicated and requires a good relationship with a good practitioner who is investigating multiple different aspects of care. The idea that NDT is > levothyroxine is not evidence based (quite the opposite), but sure- it's still used. Some people prefer it for no objective reason- but quality of life matters most provided health metrics are equivalent so sure, NDT can be an option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Rest View Post
    such as? Curious since I've twice tested low on D3 in the last 4 months.
    Nearly any chronic disease or inflammatory state. It's pretty wild, actually. It can just be related to low sun exposure too, sure.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    Nearly any chronic disease or inflammatory state. It's pretty wild, actually. It can just be related to low sun exposure too, sure.
    yeah, I do have a pretty gnarly office tan going on. Time to buy a convertible

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