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Thread: BCAA without Citrulline?

  1. #1
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    Default BCAA without Citrulline?

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    Hi,

    I have 2 quick questions about BCAAs.

    1. You said that citrulline malate is used to reduce isoleucine levels to allow the body to absorb leucine better. So what happens if I take a BCAA that doesn't have citrulline? Xtend is relatively expensive but I don't wanna end up buying cheaper BCAAs that won't be effective in the end.

    2. It was mentioned somewhere that you can trigger the "BCAA effect" by either taking BCAAs OR 30g of carbs. So if I eat 30g of carbs between meals I get the same effect as taking BCAA or are BCAAs actually the only way to go because of their fast absorption property?

    I've been asking a lot of questions since I signed up on this forum; hopefully I'm not bothering you.

  2. #2
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    1) I said that? Nothing really different happens if you don't take CM. It just might work a little better.

    2) No.

    3) You are bothering me because you're not taking the time to learn and train as directed, but instead focus on the minutiae that is not applicable to you at this time. So, I'm not annoyed by you- but I am concerned you're wasting resources on things that do not need to be discussed at this time.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    1) I said that? Nothing really different happens if you don't take CM. It just might work a little better.

    2) No.

    3) You are bothering me because you're not taking the time to learn and train as directed, but instead focus on the minutiae that is not applicable to you at this time. So, I'm not annoyed by you- but I am concerned you're wasting resources on things that do not need to be discussed at this time.
    1) Yea, I read all of the 50ish pages in the supplement thread and it's buried in there somewhere.

    2) Ok I need to do more research then.

    3) You don't get it. I've been lifting weight since I was 15 on and off and never made a whole lot of progress; now that I have access to information that will allow me to have a better understanding of my body I don't see why I shouldn't consume everything I can. Also, I've been reading a lot of your posts across this board and a lot of your answers seem to contradict themselves, so it makes sense for me to ask directly. But you have the right to be annoyed because this is your job and I haven't given you any money for this so, you don't have to waste your time; I can always go the trial and error route and learn things the hard way.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinnybutfat View Post
    1) Yea, I read all of the 50ish pages in the supplement thread and it's buried in there somewhere.

    2) Ok I need to do more research then.

    3) You don't get it. I've been lifting weight since I was 15 on and off and never made a whole lot of progress; now that I have access to information that will allow me to have a better understanding of my body I don't see why I shouldn't consume everything I can. Also, I've been reading a lot of your posts across this board and a lot of your answers seem to contradict themselves, so it makes sense for me to ask directly. But you have the right to be annoyed because this is your job and I haven't given you any money for this so, you don't have to waste your time; I can always go the trial and error route and learn things the hard way.
    1) can you quote it so I can see the context and update or correct as appropriate?

    2) No you don't. You need to train and eat. Don't worry about bcaas.

    3) then ask the specifically contradicting stuff. Things change, I update my views or there are more nuanced answers. If you've been training since 15, then you can appreciate that majoring in the minors is a waste of time and we should avoid it. You've been instructed on what to do- your job is to do it.

  5. #5
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    If you're the kind of guy (like me) who "trains on and off" then the zero to 0.01% to maybe 3% performance boost you get over the long term from something esoteric like citrulline will be more than negated by a few weeks here and there of inconsistent training. In other words if citrulline gives you a 406 squat at the end of the year that would've been piddly 405 without it, just skipping the gym for the month of May or not eating enough or poor sleep habits will easily put you at 385 instead. You're excited and want to expend energy in this pursuit. Expend it and your money on whey and some cool new wrist wraps or something.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    2) No you don't. You need to train and eat. Don't worry about bcaas.

    3) then ask the specifically contradicting stuff. Things change, I update my views or there are more nuanced answers. If you've been training since 15, then you can appreciate that majoring in the minors is a waste of time and we should avoid it. You've been instructed on what to do- your job is to do it.
    Here, it's easier if I just quote you:

    "A good coach doesn’t just tell his or her new lifter to go squat after teaching him or her the lift, as this would be irresponsible. The coach works with the lifter to determine the proper loading, set, and rep scheme that is appropriate. From this point, systematic modifications are made to the training. In the Starting Strength Novice Program outlined in Starting Strength: Basic Barbell Training (3rd ed) a lifter simply adds weight to the bar workout to workout. After a few weeks however, the coach may introduce the glute-ham raise to replace one of the deadlift training sessions and relegate heavy pulls to a frequency of once per week. Sets, reps, loads, and exercises are all recorded and tracked by the lifter and the coach to ensure progress. We can all agree that this is a recipe for training success, but why is this style of nutritional programming dismissed as too complicated?" - Jordan Feigenbaum MS, Starting Strength Staff, CSCS, HFS, USAW Club Coach

    Now you're telling me that I need to stop trying to optimize my performance by avoiding the little details. I guess I'll go ahead and uninstall myfitnesspal and start eyeballing instead. When my lifts stall I'll just start drinking gallons of milk and get fat. Sounds like a plan.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinnybutfat View Post
    Here, it's easier if I just quote you:

    "A good coach doesn’t just tell his or her new lifter to go squat after teaching him or her the lift, as this would be irresponsible. The coach works with the lifter to determine the proper loading, set, and rep scheme that is appropriate. From this point, systematic modifications are made to the training. In the Starting Strength Novice Program outlined in Starting Strength: Basic Barbell Training (3rd ed) a lifter simply adds weight to the bar workout to workout. After a few weeks however, the coach may introduce the glute-ham raise to replace one of the deadlift training sessions and relegate heavy pulls to a frequency of once per week. Sets, reps, loads, and exercises are all recorded and tracked by the lifter and the coach to ensure progress. We can all agree that this is a recipe for training success, but why is this style of nutritional programming dismissed as too complicated?" - Jordan Feigenbaum MS, Starting Strength Staff, CSCS, HFS, USAW Club Coach

    Now you're telling me that I need to stop trying to optimize my performance by avoiding the little details. I guess I'll go ahead and uninstall myfitnesspal and start eyeballing instead. When my lifts stall I'll just start drinking gallons of milk and get fat. Sounds like a plan.
    I'm telling you to not worry about citrulline malate, not to avoid being a responsible trainee and track your food.

    You appear to feel entitled to a lot of hand holding here and maybe that's my fault for developing that culture here in this subforum, but I am not your coach and I've already told you explicitly what to do anyway. I'm just not sure there are any more questions that need answering right now.

  8. #8
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    skinnybutfat,

    Hey bud. You don't know me from a hill of beans, but I think you're picking the pepper out of the fly shit here.

    You're contemplating the minor details when you should be eating and lifting.

    You need to be able to glean what's really important (training the lifts, hitting macros and adjusting accordingly) from what's not important (whether your BCAA's have CM in them or not).

    Go lift and eat like I'm sure you know how to from reading everything Jordan has published and come back in a year. If you pay attention to the most important stuff (again, training and eating), you'll be bigger, stronger and hopefully you'd have learned something.

    Then do it for another few years.

    Then maybe consider if your BCAA's should have CM in them.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    I'm telling you to not worry about citrulline malate, not to avoid being a responsible trainee and track your food.

    You appear to feel entitled to a lot of hand holding here and maybe that's my fault for developing that culture here in this subforum, but I am not your coach and I've already told you explicitly what to do anyway. I'm just not sure there are any more questions that need answering right now.
    Since when did asking for clarifications become hand holding? You recommend supplements on podcasts, in your articles, posts, everywhere but now it's "no fuck supplements, just eat and train". You change your mind too often, I can't trust you. Goodbye.

  10. #10
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by skinnybutfat View Post
    Since when did asking for clarifications become hand holding? You recommend supplements on podcasts, in your articles, posts, everywhere but now it's "no fuck supplements, just eat and train". You change your mind too often, I can't trust you. Goodbye.
    I never said that either. Have you considered that the way you interact with people may not be optimal for cultivating good relationships? Just wondering....

    In any event, happy trails. Good luck with your training.

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