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Thread: TBAB - Skinny Novice: Measured

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serack View Post
    On the subject of unrealistic goals...



    Having tapped out his linear progression, at +5lb a week, he'd take 7 months to get to 1.5x of 300, and is wholly unlikely to meet the "at least 1.5x" goal you just set out for him in a "few months."

    I know I'm bumping blindly into walls with my own programming and other limitations*, but with numbers not unlike his, I felt damn good about getting 1.12x on my squat in a "few months." (five) I wish I knew how far I am from my potential gains if I had the $ to have someone like Jordan coaching me directly rather than bumping along with my limited understanding of the books and SS/BBM/Andy Baker articles, but this seems like an unrealistic celling for what that could be.

    *late 30's, only 50min for weekday workouts, no weekend squat rack, minor muscle motor idiocy/inathleticity...
    Please dont try to come up with special snowflake conditions for him as an "excuse." The dude is trying to achieve inhuman levels of fitness, so I imagine your situation is very different from his. My original post still applies, since he most likely didn't LP correctly. At his "size" those numbers show that he has serious form issues or wasn't eating along the way. In which case he needs to reset and follow the program.

    Reevaluate your goals and what it takes to achieve them.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serack View Post
    My reading was that he was saying 1.5x of the weight 300b in a "few months", not the reps.

    As for 300 x 5, within a year of training... I won't say that's unreasonable, but my own personal experience is that I still haven't managed... within 2 years... My latest LP retry capped out at 265x3x5, which is the 12% improvement from last fall's LP. Monday, I managed 280 for 2...

    My reasons may not be good ones... but there are reasons in there somewhere, and they aren't lack of trying...
    Do you think if you came and trained with me at my place in Norfolk for 1 year, thinks would be different? If so, why?

    If not, why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by brkriete View Post
    Matt Reynolds?
    I have no doubt that my colleague and compadre Matt has at or more LBM than Klokov. However, should he (Reynolds) desire to be as lean as Klokov he would have less.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Montgomery View Post
    I think Manimal was suggesting that I should be able to increase my squat, bench, and deadlift weights by 50% over the next few months, which is extremely unrealistic. No way I'm going to go from squatting 300x3 to 450x3 in a few months, or move my deadlift from 365x1 to 550x1 in a few months. A few years, sure, but not a few months.
    I dont think that's unreasonable in say, a year- if that is the most important thing to you. I also don't think it'd be unreasonable if you're a novice ya know? More likely over a few years if someone is not a novice with the regular compromises we all face.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krypto View Post
    I don't know. I just assume that there must be some people of this caliber here.

    I only know a few pictures of you and some other more prominent SSCs around here (Rip, Austin Baraki, Andy Baker, Matt Reynolds...). I don't know your or their height/weight numbers.
    None of those approach the numbers thrown out.

    I do know that you're much, much stronger than I am. I am 40 years old, been doing SS training for 10 months now (bodybuilding gym shit for two decades before that), and weigh ~215lbs at 6'1". I guesstimate my BF% to be between 15 and 20%
    ,

    I will hazard a guess that your BF is more likely 20-25%, which is not something I'm saying to be an asshole, but just playing the odds of the internet. You can post a pic and prove me wrong, of course.

    Also, gaining 15lbs of muscle to your frame while at the same body fat is likely a 3-6 year process. Maybe more. Just saying.

    PS: googling GainzZz Rx, I found pictures of one certain Mr. Feigenbaum in prime shape. If you were 6'1" tall with that build, you'd definitely be at least 230lbs.
    that's 2" taller than I am now. 230 at that height would make me MUCH larger.

    Quote Originally Posted by stejor View Post
    Andy Baker of KSC said he was 5'4" and 210 "with visible abs" (I interpret that as something like 10-12% BF) a couple years back. About the same amount of LBM as the figure you're referencing, but at nine inches shorter than the OP of this thread.
    I think 5'4 and 210 at <12% BF is highly unlikely.

  3. #23
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    Jordan, thank you for the reply.
    It's an idle discussion anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    I will hazard a guess that your BF is more likely 20-25%, which is not something I'm saying to be an asshole, but just playing the odds of the internet. You can post a pic and prove me wrong, of course.

    Also, gaining 15lbs of muscle to your frame while at the same body fat is likely a 3-6 year process. Maybe more. Just saying.
    No worries, I know why and how you're saying what you're saying, and it might be you're right. I've never measured my BF, but I know it was always very low. Did a few bodybuilding shows when I was younger (I was pressured into it, I swear!), and was always the most ripped and least massive guy onstage. I'm proud to have left that behind me

    All I was trying to say is that I think 230lbs at 6'1" is not monstrously huge. Over the years, I've known a few huge people - pro bodybuilders and strongmen. I do not count myself as huge, but that was exactly my point. I know I can't easily or quickly gain 15 lean pounds. But even if I could, I'd still NOT be huge. I believe my talent/genetics for power, strength and size are average at best, and I can't believe that if I come reasonably close to the mentioned numbers, that there are not some guys around here who are that big.
    I could post a pic, sure, but that would mean/prove nothing, other than maybe I underestimate my BF%. Or you would say, 'okay, you're around 15%, awesome, well done' - and then? As I said, an idle discussion. Perhaps it's just that you and I have a different notion of what huge means. Or perhaps: I think a taller frame needs more weight to look muscular. To look like you at 2" taller than you are.... who knows how much that would be in pounds?

    Okay, enough said and time wasted
    I'm happy that I am not small anymore.
    I'll send you a picture one I've reached my bodyweight goal of 227lbs (=BMI 30 = clinical obesity) (that might take a year or two ).

    Keep up the good work,
    regards,
    Alex

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krypto View Post
    J

    No worries, I know why and how you're saying what you're saying, and it might be you're right. I've never measured my BF, but I know it was always very low. Did a few bodybuilding shows when I was younger (I was pressured into it, I swear!), and was always the most ripped and least massive guy onstage. I'm proud to have left that behind me

    All I was trying to say is that I think 230lbs at 6'1" is not monstrously huge.
    I kind of agree and disagree at the same time. Is 15% BF at 230 at 6'1 hyoooooge? Well, depends on context. For a professional athlete in a barbell or strength sport who is using PED's, it's not uncommon. But for a natural lifter who is not a pro athlete....yea, it's very rare.

    I'm not bating you to post a pic to prove myself right, but it's been my experience that folks underestimate their bodyfat, which changes your post doesn't it?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    I kind of agree and disagree at the same time. Is 15% BF at 230 at 6'1 hyoooooge? Well, depends on context. For a professional athlete in a barbell or strength sport who is using PED's, it's not uncommon. But for a natural lifter who is not a pro athlete....yea, it's very rare.
    Agreed, you're right.

    But you imply that there are none of these rare individuals on board here? (If not here, where would they be...)

    And all I was saying is that I think you're a very good example for an accomplished athlete: if you're shorter than 6'1", and therefore lighter than 230lbs, maybe you underestimate how many pounds it would take for a taller athlete to get your (impressive) build?
    (and I'm not talking roidmonster impressive. I've met a lot of competitive bodybuilders. The older I get, the less impressive it is to me)

    I don't know why we're even continuing this discussion... I guess it is normal for people to want to have a frame of reference, an idea of what can realistically be expected, for their own peace of mind. I believe I can be 230lbs at 15%BF - I don't know, but I sure hope I'm right! Maybe that's why I interjected at that point, because if an authority I respect on the matter (you) thinks my goals are really rare and hard to achieve for most people (I honestly think my talent is sub-average, it's not an excuse), whereas I thought it rather average for a serious lifter, I'd be demotivated. But then, not so demotivated to stop trying to improve

    I'm not bating you to post a pic to prove myself right, but it's been my experience that folks underestimate their bodyfat, which changes your post doesn't it?
    Hehe, oookay, I'll get you the pics, you old lecher (should have done it yesterday, after bench and chins... )
    It would change the flavor of my post a little bit, but only because I used myself as an example. It does make a difference whether I'd have to gain 15 pounds or gain 30 and lose 15 at the same time


    Cheers to you Jordan!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    I think 5'4 and 210 at <12% BF is highly unlikely.
    No arguments here; just recounting what other coaches on the board have said. I also remember Rippetoe suggesting that a natural powerlifter who was 6' should be 275 at 10-20% BF. In that same thread, Michael Wolf reported that he was that same height at a weight of 255 and a BF "in the upper teens". I was especially confused by Wolf's post, considering that his reported lifting numbers weren't that much higher than mine (about the same deadlift, 10% higher squat and press), but he was reporting something like 40lbs more LBM than I had (I weighed 230 at an estimated 25% BF).

    I'm not trying to sow dissent or anything like that, but it is a bit frustrating that I was ridiculed by the other coaches and board members for saying basically the same thing you're saying here.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krypto View Post
    Agreed, you're right.

    But you imply that there are none of these rare individuals on board here? (If not here, where would they be...)

    And all I was saying is that I think you're a very good example for an accomplished athlete: if you're shorter than 6'1", and therefore lighter than 230lbs, maybe you underestimate how many pounds it would take for a taller athlete to get your (impressive) build?

    I'm saying that even the impressive folks here do not meet the 6'0 230lb 15% muscle level.

    Quote Originally Posted by stejor View Post
    No arguments here; just recounting what other coaches on the board have said. I also remember Rippetoe suggesting that a natural powerlifter who was 6' should be 275 at 10-20% BF. In that same thread, Michael Wolf reported that he was that same height at a weight of 255 and a BF "in the upper teens". I was especially confused by Wolf's post, considering that his reported lifting numbers weren't that much higher than mine (about the same deadlift, 10% higher squat and press), but he was reporting something like 40lbs more LBM than I had (I weighed 230 at an estimated 25% BF).

    I'm not trying to sow dissent or anything like that, but it is a bit frustrating that I was ridiculed by the other coaches and board members for saying basically the same thing you're saying here.
    Yea, like I said I don't think people know their body fat very well and have continued to say the same. There are no 275 natural powerlifters with <15% bodyfat.

  8. #28
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    Yea, like I said I don't think people know their body fat very well and have continued to say the same. There are no 275 natural powerlifters with <15% bodyfat.
    Fair enough; that seems like the most plausible explanation. Thanks for the insight.

  9. #29
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    starting strength coach development program
    I'm 5'11" and 248. I have visible upper abs on even the most bloated of days. I have some decent vascularity in my chest and shoulders. That said, I am also (well) above 20% bf. I have a nice spare tire just above the belly button and below and can pinch a good couple of inches.

    Who fucking cares what your BF% is? Are you strong? Do you like how you look? Adjust from there...

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