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Thread: I can't figure out how to program Deadlifts

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Default I can't figure out how to program Deadlifts

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    Below, I've included my entire training history in an easy to digest format (or close enough, hopefully). I recommend skipping ahead to around the middle of January because I believe the prior stuff is irrelevant. I've included it just in case. To be clear, the first numbers are squats and the second numbers are deadlifts. If I put none in the first cell, that's because I didn't squat. If there is no number in the second cell that's because I didn't deadlift.

    My History:
    Day Squat Deadlift
    9-Sep 305x5x3
    12-Sep 315x5x3 345x4
    14-Sep 325x5x3
    16-Sep 335x5x3 355x5
    19-Sep 345x5x3
    21-Sep 355x5x3 365x5
    24-Sep 295x5x2
    26-Sep 365x5x3 305x5 Deadlift
    Note: reset Deadlift due to form (hitching on 365)
    28-Sep 365x1
    Note: Repeated squat due to depth concerns, got 1 rep
    30-Sep Deload 365x5
    2-Oct 325x5x1
    4-Oct 325x5x3 375x1
    Note: Okay, at this point it appears four days is obviously not enough time to recover for my pulls anymore
    6-Oct 330x5x3
    10-Oct 335x5x3 315x5
    12-Oct 340x5x3
    14-Oct 345x5x3 320x5
    17-Oct 350x5x3
    19-Oct 355x0 325x5
    Note: Started trying to diet using intermittent fasting, lost weight got 0 reps
    21-Oct 355x5,5,0
    24-Oct 360x5x1 335x5
    Note: Switched to Madcow's for squats
    28-Oct 367.5x3x1 345x5
    31-Oct 367.5x5x1
    2-Nov None 355x5x1
    Note: First time I ever tried pulling without squatting, my log says it was my best set ever in terms of technique/speed
    4-Nov 375x3
    7-Nov 315x5+335x5 365x5
    Note: I started an extremely restrictive diet at this point (RFL)
    11-Nov 365x0
    Note: Couldn't recover while on RFL
    14-Nov 295x5x2 370x5
    Note: Hit an all-time PR while on a very restrictive diet (losing 2-3lbs per wk)
    18-Nov 345x3
    21-Nov 285x5x2 370x6
    Note: Second consecutive PR WHILE dieting, perhaps I'd been over training my pulls/lower body?
    24-Nov
    Note: Pulled hamstring very badly doing GHRs
    28-Nov 275x5x2 315x4
    Note: Hamstring prevented me from doing anything near PRs for quite some time
    2-Dec 275x5x2
    5-Dec 275x5x2 345x1
    9-Dec 275x12
    12-Dec 275x5x2 345x4
    16-Dec 235x15x5 175x15
    Note: Restrictive diet ends
    18-Dec 245x12 245x12
    20-Dec 255x12 255x12
    22-Dec 265x12 265x12
    24-Dec 275x12 275x12
    26-Dec 285x12 285x12
    28-Dec 295x12 295x12
    30-Dec Deload Deload
    1-Jan 385x1 400x1
    Note: Maxed out after getting shit faced on New Year's eve. I think I had probably regained most of my lost strength at this point.
    4-Jan
    Note: Did bodybuilding style workouts for a week, hated it, went back to strength training
    12-Jan 305x5x3 345x3
    14-Jan 315x5x3
    16-Jan None 355x0
    Note: Yes, that's zero reps for deadlift.
    19-Jan 325x3x5 355x3
    21-Jan 335x3x5 365x1
    26-Jan 345x5x3
    28-Jan None 366x5
    Note: After one week off of pulling, I took more than what I singled and hit it for five.
    2-Feb 365x5x2
    4-Feb 355x5x1 375x5x1
    Note: Crippling tendonitis sets in, but I pull an all-time PR with ease 7 days after I last pulled
    6-Feb 315x5x3
    Note: High bar squats because of the elbow
    8-Feb None 385x5x1
    Note: Only four days later, I pulled another deadlift PR
    10-Feb 325x5x1
    13-Feb 320x5x3 396x1
    Note: Five days later, I try to pull, I get one rep. The squats were "medium" at that time.
    15-Feb 330x5x3
    18-Feb 335x5x3 391x1
    Note: After taking off 5lbs and still getting only 1 rep, despite getting 385 for 5 only 10 days earlier, I reset my pulls
    20-Feb 340x5x3
    22-Feb 345x5x3 355x5
    Note: These deadlifts were extremely hard. Clearly I'm overtrained/underrecovered on the pulls as my PR at the time was 385x5
    25-Feb 308x5x3 353x5
    Note: "Repeated" the weight because I was at SS seminar working on form
    29-Feb 350x5x3
    Note: Restarted GOMAD, I'm in extreme caloric excess
    3-Mar 355x5x3
    5-Mar 360x5x3 365x0
    Note: This really makes no sense at all, I pulled eight days later and still managed to get zero. During this period I probably gained 3-5lbs as well.
    7-Mar 365x5x3
    10-Mar 370x5,5,2 365x5
    Note: This makes no sense, either. Five days later I pulled 365x5 AND it was after squatting PR weights.
    12-Mar 265x5x2
    Note: Light squats are introduced and I switch to a single top set instead of sets across
    14-Mar 375x5 385x5
    17-Mar 380x5
    19-Mar 285x5x2
    21-Mar 385x5 395x5
    Note: All-time PR deadlift while squatting an all-time PR as well. This was a "Friday" in my training schedule.
    24-Mar 390x2
    Note: My log blames deadlifting on Friday for this Monday squat failure
    26-Mar 295x5x2
    28-Mar 390x5
    31-Mar 395x5 405x0
    Note: As you can see, I waited for TEN DAYS and still didn't recover. This just makes no sense. I moved my deadlifts to Monday in the hopes they wouldn't interfere with Friday squats the way they interfered with Monday squats when I was pulling on Friday. Did I detrain? Was this a product of trying to pull on Monday? I have no idea. It makes no sense.
    2-Apr None 405x3
    Note: So, two days after going 405x0, I go 405x3. The first time, I waited ten days and got zero. The second time I waited 2 days and got 3. I didn't squat at all for the 405 triple. I thought squat was interfering.
    4-Apr 400x5
    7-Apr 405x5
    Note: I pulled my hamstring doing GHRs on this day (not very badly)
    9-Apr None 415x1
    Note: My log blames this deadlift failure on the hamstring.
    11-Apr 410x5
    14-Apr 415x5
    16-Apr None 405x1
    Note: Hamstring wasn’t a factor today as far as I could tell. In fact, all of my warm-ups felt exceedingly difficult compared to what they "should" have felt like.





    After going through all of that data, I'm really no closer to understanding how to program my deadlift at all. My very best pulls have actually come on days when I've squatted despite my thinking that squatting first was actually the culprit. I actually made pretty significant progress on my deadlift while doing an extreme diet (RFL). I've made almost zero progress on my deadlift during my recent bout with GOMAD. I went from 385x5 to 395x5 after four days. Then, after ten days, I went from 395x5 to 405x0. It's all completely fucked. I can't make sense of it, yet.

    Anyone have any ideas?

    So far, I'm considering moving to 14 days between heavy deadlifts. My concern with this is that a few of the times I've waited more than seven days to pull, I've had major deadlift regressions.

    My other idea, based on my progress while dieting, is to move to a schedule where I'm only squatting once a week. When I did this while dieting, I probably added 15-20lbs to my deadlift. My concern with this is that I'd experience regression with my squats.

    The other thing I thought of was simply resetting and just trying again with smaller increments. My concern with this is that the programming didn't work last time so I'm not sure why it would this time either. It's different than bench or press when you start getting those 4 rep sets. In those cases, sure, moving to smaller increments makes sense. However, when I've failed deadlifts, I've almost always gotten 1 rep or less.

    All in all, I'm kind of stumped at the moment.

  2. #2
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    What the f.

    I see certain factors that can be causing the problem. And I can offer some ideas.

    Hit us up on the regular thread. Or my new thing. There will be Wang on here. I choose not to indulge in it.

    There isn't as much to be concerned about as you think.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by f4thpathway View Post
    What the f.

    I see certain factors that can be causing the problem. And I can offer some ideas.

    Hit us up on the regular thread. Or my new thing. There will be Wang on here. I choose not to indulge in it.

    There isn't as much to be concerned about as you think.
    I don't know if it's just me, but I can't understand half of what f4thpathway's saying.

  4. #4
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    I actually know exactly what he said... this time, anyway.

  5. #5
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    Eu disse a ele que eu tenho algumas idéias. Eu disse me encontrar na nossa lista de discussão. Ou no meu novo log. Há pessoas loucas que vêm aqui em breve e eu não quero ouvi-los.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos Daniel View Post
    I don't know if it's just me, but I can't understand half of what f4thpathway's saying.

    Its because you're poor, gay and brazilian.

    Clearly it was a reference to the Blues Song: wang dang doodle, got a new thing...

    Seriously- If id like to see that discussion if its not private. Im not advanced in my lifts enough to have an opinion -but Im wondering if it is more neuromuscular efficiency issue than a muscle thing?

  7. #7
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    Tom- are you deadlifts touch and go or reset between each rep? Also, what are you squatting?

  8. #8
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    Of all the lifts, deads are the most perplexing. It seems like they should be brute strength but are really quite technical.

    My two cents are playing slightly with your stance as I doubt it's the same now as when you were lighter. I'd also recommend trying a program for two months prior to making a decision on change. There are really on two ways to go, more or less. Sounds as though you've decided on the less approach. If that doesn't work, do more. Good Luck and keep us posted.

  9. #9
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    415x5 squats, never done a single rep TnG

  10. #10
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    starting strength coach development program
    I would suggest changing the rep scheme a bit. When you run into a wall with a certain rep scheme, sometimes it helps to change things up. Since you are doing mostly 5's or attempting them, maybe drop to 3's or 2's for a bit. You could do three sets of ramped up doubles, like 405, 415, 425. Or just work up to a top double set.

    Also, without seeing your squat programming & other programming it's hard give the best recommendation because squatting and deadlifting are related.

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