Split Version of Madcow's
Any thoughts on this split version of Madcow's for an early-intermediate trainee?
Olympic Press: 5x5
Bench: 4x5, 1x3, 1x8
Power Clean: 8x3
Squats: 4x5, 1x3, 1x8
1) Why not just do the original program?
Deadlifting 5x5 48 hours after squatting 5x5 doesn't seem to work for me. Squatted 435x5 on Saturday. Struggled with 315x5 deadlift on Monday (PR is 395x5). Decided not to squat today and pulled 455x1 with possibly a few lbs to spare.
2) 5x5 = ramped to a PR
ex: 200x5, 250x5, 300x5, 350x5, 400x5
3) 1x3 sets are +5 (+2.5 for bench) from last time you did a 5 rep PR
ex: 205x5, 255x5, 305x5, 355x5, 405x3, 305x8
4) 3x8 stuff is assistance for sets across
5) 8x3 power cleans are ramped similarly to 5x5
ex: 100x3, 115x3, 130x3, 145x3, 160x3, 175x3, 190x3, 200x3
Last edited by Tom Narvaez; 05-02-2012 at 10:57 PM.
I thinks something like this would work well. Split routines work well, especially when it gets hard to recover from the full body workouts 3x per week.
I think some of the guys on this forum are using a TM/5/3/1 PL hybrid split. It is basically the TM split, but 5/3/1 helps you pick your numbers for intensity day. It also isn't max intensity every week, so that could fall more into the later part of intermediate. I started doing that with my deadlift, and it has helped. I am still just doing the TM split for my other lifts (expect OHP, which is only volume).
Madcow should work pretty well too, since it keeps you on a set scheme. Eventaully the two squat/bench days could get too heavy to recover from, and then you might have to go to a volume/intensity split. But I do think it will work for a while.
Madcows is already sort of a volume/intensity split. If you think about someone who can do 405x5, 410x3 is not really a challenging set. Sure, you have to work hard, but it isn't anywhere near a max triple. That is why the back off set is so important in accumulating enough volume to drive adaptation.
I have a personal aversion to 531 because I just prefer sticking to the strength spectrum in terms of rep ranges.
Yeah, I agree that madcow will work. That type of programming has worked for a lot of folks, and I think it makes a great early intermediate program.
Even on TM though, sometimes the volume day can get too close in intensity to the heavy day. That is when it can be hard to recover. Some programs have a heavy day and a light day (not nearly as hard as a traditional volume day), and those can work too, depending on your level of progression.
Not that I live and breathe 5/3/1, but do checkout 5/3/1 for PL. There are no rep maxes, and you do 3 heavy singles instead.
But for now, if you have madcow in mind, I would just do that. I think you will have a lot of success with madcow on a split.
I'm not going to change anything just yet. I'm thinking into the future. I imagine I only have a few more months, at the most, until a switch like this becomes necessary.
I like it. But I will replace the rows with more cleans. But thats just me. Overall, I like it.
"sticking to the strength spectrum in terms of rep ranges". Tom, what do you mean? Reps to low compare to Madcows or TM?
PS...congrats on that 455 pull!
I would just screw the 5x5 deadlift and do 1x5 with minimal warmup. That's what I'm doing and it works fine. Still making good progress so it's enough volume IMO.
Since I'm here I do a few more modifications as well.
On Monday I do 5x5 squat and bench, but sets of 1x3 and 1x2 at the end. I also do the same with the press on Wednesdays. I did Pavel's bear before and like this rep scheme.
Also, on Fridays, I jump 15 lbs on the squat compared to Monday, but Monday is only 7.5 lbs more than the previous Monday. So, it would be like: Mon-325, Fri-340, Mon-332.5 , Fri-347.5, Mon-340, etc. I think it's better as before the Friday workouts were two easy. Maybe for someone more advanced it's better as written but for someone transitioning off SS I think it's an improvement.
Shit, I also do chins and close grip bench on Monday and PC on Friday. So I guess I am fucking with the program quite a bit. Anyways, it's working. I'm sure your proposal will work too. Just tweak it if necessary.
Yeah, I'd prefer to make as few changes as possible. I'd need Friday's workout to remain "easy" in comparison to Monday if I was going to deadlift 5x5 first.
Squat, thanks, and with reference to 531 vs. TM/SS, I just don't have much interest in going entire weeks without handling a weight that I can do for 5 reps or less. Like Les said, 531 for powerlifting is a different animal, but still. I really like the basic progression of handling x weight this week and then x+5 next week or whatever.
Thanks Tom. Makes sense. I see a 500lb squat and deadlift very soon.