Texas Method - Volume Day Weight Questions

[Good Squire]

Sorry to revive a dead thread, however I have come across a reddit link which has intrigued me. Program Review - One Year on the Texas Method : weightroom

This guy got up to a 500lb squat using a gigantic offset from volume day to intensity day. His volume days were about 70% of his 1RM, which started him at roughly 80% of his starting 5 reps on intensity day. The guy was squatting 455lbs for 5x1 singles and hitting only 330lbs on volume day without any severe fatigue. He also claimed that he was an orthodox Christian and was commonly fasting, and even stated that his protein intake per day many times was only 100gs, even though he weighed over 200lbs. I feel like this logic goes against the common trend here I've noticed on these forums that volume day needs to be an absolute bear in order for the program to work, and is blowing my mind on exactly how important protein take is. Is this guy just the exception? Is this why people gas out so quickly on TM, myself included, because of the unnecessarily heavy VD weights according to his postings? What do you guys think? I'm thinking about running it again and keeping the volume percentage low. From how he ran it, he seems to have turned it into almost a HLM without the light day. Very intriguing.

[Hans Bachmann]

I don't know about the fasting. The guy says he gained 25lbs...

However, I think about it this way: VD drives the adaptation that is realized/showcased on ID. That's what many people say.

But what if ID drives progress itself? I think its stated in PPST, not sure though. Wouldn't that mean, You have to be recovered enough, to perform a limit set without adding too much fatigue in order to make ID work, and long term progress possible? In other words, Do you need a limit 5x5 if you do high intensity later in the week?

What i found in PPST, was the recommendation to use 80-90% of fridays 5RM, which leaves you close to 70% 1RM. Now my experience is, that anything that involves more than 6 min. of rest between sets leaves me crippled for the week, so keeping the volume at "medium" intensity, as long as ID goes up makes perfect sense to me.

[Good Squire]

I don't know about the fasting. The guy says he gained 25lbs...

However, I think about it this way: VD drives the adaptation that is realized/showcased on ID. That's what many people say.

But what if ID drives progress itself? I think its stated in PPST, not sure though. Wouldn't that mean, You have to be recovered enough, to perform a limit set without adding too much fatigue in order to make ID work, and long term progress possible? In other words, Do you need a limit 5x5 if you do high intensity later in the week?

What i found in PPST, was the recommendation to use 80-90% of fridays 5RM, which leaves you close to 70% 1RM. Now my experience is, that anything that involves more than 6 min. of rest between sets leaves me crippled for the week, so keeping the volume at "medium" intensity, as long as ID goes up makes perfect sense to me.

Weird, right? He claims that he eats about 3000 calories a day and only gets less than 130g of protein usually, yet he throws on 25lbs in a year. 🤔

Yes, I agree with you. A balls-out set has to drive progress. Based on the experiences of this dude, intensity day has to drive the adaptation with a lower stress volume day, with both of them working in tandem. I do not understand then why we all attempt to kill ourselves on volume day with sets up to an RPE 9 or 10, and having rest requirements pushed up to 10 minutes? Doesn't that create two very painful intensity days instead? If we simply looked at the progress, instead of constantly loading weight on the bar on volume day, I doubt people would get burned out so quick. Like you said, as long as intensity day goes up, what's the problem with keeping the volume consistent or gradually raising it instead of striving for "volume day maxes?"

[tavccp]

I decided on 4 sets because Hanley had posted several TM/HLM programs with 4 x 6 volume and 3 x 3 Int. I also figured that since I was doing advanced novice and switching to this method it made sense to add 1 set to my first squat day. Second day stayed light. 3rd day was still 3 heavy sets, but slightly higher intensity. It was a small incremental change to the program I was already doing - add 1 set. Also I am older, going to be 37 and I want to limit time in the gym somewhat, have a young child.

Hey, it looks a nice program, i'm interested in it, however i've been searching this program but i could only find his TM logs, can u say more about this 4x6 and 3x3, like the offsets between the weigths of those days and other essential information, please ?

[Nate7out]

Hey, it looks a nice program, i'm interested in it, however i've been searching this program but i could only find his TM logs, can u say more about this 4x6 and 3x3, like the offsets between the weigths of those days and other essential information, please ?

You will have to read some threads, and look for his input. The info. is not all in one post. Also, it was someone else's idea so I can't explain it perfectly.

https://startingstrength.com/resourc...ed-advice.html
https://startingstrength.com/resourc...lost-help.html
https://startingstrength.com/resourc...lls-apart.html
https://startingstrength.com/resourc...-template.html
https://startingstrength.com/resourc...mpetitors.html

[Hans Bachmann]

Weird, right? He claims that he eats about 3000 calories a day and only gets less than 130g of protein usually, yet he throws on 25lbs in a year. ��

Yes, I agree with you. A balls-out set has to drive progress. Based on the experiences of this dude, intensity day has to drive the adaptation with a lower stress volume day, with both of them working in tandem. I do not understand then why we all attempt to kill ourselves on volume day with sets up to an RPE 9 or 10, and having rest requirements pushed up to 10 minutes? Doesn't that create two very painful intensity days instead? If we simply looked at the progress, instead of constantly loading weight on the bar on volume day, I doubt people would get burned out so quick. Like you said, as long as intensity day goes up, what's the problem with keeping the volume consistent or gradually raising it instead of striving for "volume day maxes?"

Yeah, i don't know what he does for a living. 3500-4000 cal/day, 250g protein have me sitting at 6' 215 +1lb a month.

I'm doing a 4-day split since 4 weeks after resetting and stalling on LP for 6 weeks straight. I figured on LP, that after a set of deadlifts and 3x5 squats on monday, I was wrecked. Light day felt horrible, and on friday i was still toast. The fact that my job digs into my recovery doesn't help either.

So the main criticisms of TM is too much volume and intensity, "90% all the time". The few numbers i found in PPST3 were 80-90% 5RM, 70%1RM, singles across=90%, 1x5=80%, 5x5=70%,
3x8=60% as starting points. Bigger offset for Squats and deads, smaller for bench and press. Also, the hint that several
resets on VD might be necessary to prevent stalling and burnout. That matches our assessment that VD should not create too much stress.

I'm using a template right from the book: I.e. Intensity press, volume bench, assistance press 3x10 and so on. I get my intensity sets in, my main volume and some light volume, every lift PR'd and I'm not bashing my head through the wall on 5x5. Intense but short sessions, with enough time to recover in-between. To avoid progressing too fast on VD I've simply cut the increments in half. I feel great at the moment, haven't in a long time. I'll see how it goes.

[marcf]

TM isn't too much volume, it's too much intensity, especially on "volume" day.

[marcf]

.

[Hans Bachmann]

TM isn't too much volume, it's too much intensity, especially on "volume" day.

I Zink Zat woss Ze point, I'm deeply sorry about my flawed wording.