How to program the Overhead squat

[IlPrincipeBrutto]

Good morning everyone,

Let's talk about programming the overhead squat. I've done some research, and the subject of OHS has been debated a lot, but always from the point of view of 'how to execute it', and also 'why doing it at all?', but I haven't found many useful suggestions about how to program it.
So, let me start with some background.

I do OHS once a week; I started last September, with the aim to get my shoulders stronger when I lock my Power snatches (credits to SSD for suggesting this).

Since the start I've done them with five sets of five, increasing the weight on the bar until I got to 59 x 5 x5 (best Power Snatch single is 62Kg - best Press 66Kg).
I am now back to 57 x5 x5 (lost a bit over Xmas) and I will aim at getting to 60 x5 x5 at some time in the future.
After that, I think I might need to change things a bit; sets of five are very long, and I'm getting to the point where I have to take longer and longer breaks between sets to complete the session.

So, what would you suggest to drive my OHS forward using one session a week?

Thanks in advance for any ideas,

IPB

[chrisd]

No an expert, but.

Everett suggests sets of 3 for training the front squat, so maybe less reps per set. Shorter sets would need less recovery.
If the aim is to get weight on the bar, how about working up to a max single and doing back off sets ?

Is one session a week essential ? a session of sets ascending could help stop detraining.

What progression are you using ? simple linear progression (adding weight to all sets across) is harder than incrementing one set at a time.

From my limited experience, the limiting factor on the OHS is keeping the alignment necessary to maintain balance. Once you start to buckle at the bottom of the squat, the next stage is either stepping forward to stay under the bar or failing the squat and usually sitting down in the middle of the gym while everyone stares to find the source of the noise of the crashing bar.

The overhead squat certainly works the shoulders in a whole new way that nothing else seems to replicate.

Just to make it harder, try doing OHS with weights suspended from the bar. The added instability makes a difficult exercise even harder. Possibly it's of no benefit at all, but it does add variation.

[MBasic]

Are you ever going to do a full snatch up on the balcony?

It would seem the aim of most is for the OHS to help with the snatch recovery. (full snatch)
So I would guess (I see) most would aspire to OHS with more than they could even do a max full snatch with, maybe even for triples, etc.
So I would say push the heavier triples with the OHS.

AND If you are stuck Power Snatching for the rest of your existence:
I would maybe start doing moar SNG BTNeck push presses, for shoulder strength and specificity to locking out a power snatch.

. . . .AND sounds crazy, but some kind of made up exercise: SNG BTN power jerks. (edit: its a THING)
Something where you are going to lock out the snatch while standing (in your "power catch" 1/4 squat receiving position).

I just don't the the point in worrying about the OHS, all the way down to squat, when you might never do that on the loft.
The OHS, you normally just push jerk it into position once, then do a bunch of squats. It seems more to do with the balance of squatting.
Sure, its stress on the shoulders, but sort of a isometric hold only. The other exercises at least you are going thru some kind of ROM out to lockout.

IPB, if you chase one over the railing, please post the video

[IlPrincipeBrutto]

Are you ever going to do a full snatch up on the balcony?

<paraphrasing>

This is the Programming forum, not the Motivation and Justification forum>

</ paraphrasing>

:-)

Seriously: it doesn't matter.
I want to drive my OHS up, and I am asking for advice on how to do it. And I want to drive my OHS up; not my BTN Sntach grip press, not my Snatch drop, not my BTN Jerks or whatever.

Triples you say, that's something tangible. How many? And how would you progress on them? Add weight across all sets every week? Or rotating reps and keeping volume constant, as suggested in the TM chapter of the Barbell Prescription (see? I've read the right books - ah ah ah )? Chrisd seems to suggest something like a rotation, but he didn't provide many details.


IPB


PS
One day I might do one, with a medium weight, and post the video, just to make you happy. You thoroughly deserve it.


PPS
I am talking about a full snatch, not a chase over the railing.

[MBasic]

I don't have much to offer to be honest. Just an accessory lift for most.

With something like the OHS . . . that's so balancey, using a lot of small stabilizer muscles, and the squat part is not the limiting factor.

. . .I might work up to a "heavy" triple, then after that back down 10-15% in weight to something more manageable for maybe more sets of three.

Get the good work in with the heavy weight while those smaller muscles are fresh.

Instead of just sets across with a medium weight staying the same for sets across.

Triples seem more reasonable than fahives, like front squats, (what chrisd said).
__________________________________________________ _____________

sorry about getting sidetracked up there.

Originally, I thought the OHS was Rx'd to help with the OH lockout of your power snatch.
That's why you started those in the first place IIRC.
My point was, I see those other two exercises helping your power snatch lockout, more specifically.
I see the OHS more help the full snatch recovery.
. . . replacing an accessory with a DIFFERENT accessory . . . my bad

[chrisd]

I can see why you don't want to do an assistance exercise for an assistance exercise, that sort of thing leads to Bosu balls.

More details on progressions.

Week 1 57x3x5 (or 6 or whatever)
Week2 58x3 57x3xlast week -1
week3 58x3x2 57x3xlast week -1
leading up to sets across again, you might be able to do a bigger increment

Alternatively sets of triples with a minute in between and increase weight every other triple throughout the session

Something like 50x3x2 52.5x3x2 55x3x2 57.5x3x2

Add weight week by week, either by adding to all the sets or by doing more at the higher weight. If 57.5 felt like the limit, go for :
52.5x3x2 55x3x2 57.5x3x4

I'd consider that rotating rep ranges were better applied to the big lifts which are harder to recover from.

I'd say that the full OHS is not just isometric, unless you are able to squat full depth with a fully upright back.

[poser]

Assuming you are doing an intermediate program, it would make sense to do OHS on the light/recovery Day since the weight is significantly less than a backsquat. I believe the book references the option of other versions of the squat on the light day of HLM and many people, including myself, use Front Squats on TM Recovery Day so it would make sense to fit in there.

Personally I enjoy OHS. I don't do them anymore other than as warm ups with a PVC pipe or empty bar, but I do enjoy the movement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[IlPrincipeBrutto]

sorry about getting sidetracked up there.

Honestly, no problem whatsoever. Sorry if my reply came across as a bit snarky

More details on progressions.

Thanks. I like the first option most, and it chimes in with MBasic's preference for threes over fives.

Assuming you are doing an intermediate program

It's a little more complicated than that. I train five days a week, most days with a double session, one in the morning before going to work and one in evening, after coming back. Usually one exercise per session, sometimes two (for example, squats and presses are trained alone, but the day I do OHS I also do chins).
In a sense, the day I do OHS is sort of 'light', coming after the squat day, and before a Press day with lots of volume, so you are bang on after all.


Many thanks to all of you guys for the ideas. If anyone else wants to chime in, please feel free.

IPB

[MBasic]

not programming, but here:

Improving Overhead Squat Movement | JTSstrength.com - YouTube

[IlPrincipeBrutto]

Is this one session the only time you OHS? What does the rest of your programming look like?

My apologies KOTJ, I missed your questions (and MBasic's link above, thanks).

Yes, only one OHS session a week, and that's not going to change. I already train five mornings and four evenings a week (one lift per session), and there is no time left to spare in my schedule.

IPB