Switching to back offs/3x3 and/or 1 on 2 off

[beefcake99]

For an advanced novice, how do you decide whether to first try switching to a 1 on 2 off schedule versus shifting the sets/reps scheme to back offs for squats and 3x3 for presses? Or, is there a situation where you do both simultaneously? I've read the section in PPST3 and am just curious about what's worked best in your experience.

[NCuba]

Pre-emptive rescheduling of workouts might make sense if something outside your control like work or family is adversely affecting recovery and thus performance in the gym, but most have settled into a routine by this point in their training, and this option isn't even possible for many.

If you are gassed beyond belief after completing your first set of 5 for the day, it makes sense to drop the weight a bit and keep going for two more backoff 5s.

If you actually cannot make all 5 reps, then it makes sense to move on to 3x3.

I think an adv novice (i.e. HLH) 1/2/1 sched and 3x5 with backoffs would be fine for a while. 3x3 on an adv novice 1/2/1 doesn't seem like enough volume and I wonder if riding out the gains is worth screwing with the workout schedule. Something like a heavy 3 and then 2x5 backoffs on the normal schedule sounds like something that would work for me.

[marcf]

For an advanced novice, how do you decide whether to first try switching to a 1 on 2 off schedule versus shifting the sets/reps scheme to back offs for squats and 3x3 for presses? Or, is there a situation where you do both simultaneously? I've read the section in PPST3 and am just curious about what's worked best in your experience.

I've switched to 90% back-off sets on my Monday and Friday workouts. Wednesday light day stays the same.

This is what this week is going to be for me, as an example:

Day 1: 330x5; 300x5x2
Day 2: 265x5x2
Day 3: 335x5; 305x5x2

Once that runs out for me, I'm going to just switch to HLM, but in the following format:

Day 1: 350x5; 315x5x2
Day 2: 280x5x2 or 280x3x3
Day 3: 315x5x3

Try those out. The one on, two off schedule would probably work great as an alternative, but I like keeping the same schedule every week.

[Eric Larousse]

If I were you I would not reset. Simply move to 5+backoffs until it runs the course. As said above switch to a HLM variation when that runs its course. Remember there is no shame in switching to intermediate programming a little early.

[Satch12879]

For an advanced novice, how do you decide whether to first try switching to a 1 on 2 off schedule versus shifting the sets/reps scheme to back offs for squats and 3x3 for presses? Or, is there a situation where you do both simultaneously? I've read the section in PPST3 and am just curious about what's worked best in your experience.

PPST3 says that back offs are more beneficial for squats while reduced sets are more for presses. If you dig around the coaches forum, there's been some dissent on this as 3x3 tends to not be enough volume. Thus, back off sets are prescribed for those late stage novices who can get their first set or two of five, but only make three or four on the second or third.

Usually, modifications are made after one or two resets. The addition of a light day comes first. If you get to a point where you're getting something like 5,5,4 or 5,4,3, you'd then switch to back offs. Note, these are end stage novice techniques and probably aren't intended to go on forever.

[marcf]

Usually, modifications are made after one or two resets. The addition of a light day comes first. If you get to a point where you're getting something like 5,5,4 or 5,4,3, you'd then switch to back offs. Note, these are end stage novice techniques and probably aren't intended to go on forever.

I feel like the subject of resets are a little divisive, but after having done a few, I don't like them at all. I think modifying programming when you feel like you're about to stall is the better move so that you can keep progressing. Smart program modifications can allow you to increase the weight on the bar, keep moderate volume and help dissipate fatigue at the same time (e.g. top set with back off sets, or HLM).

However, if a novice stalls under 300 pounds (I believe Cody said this in another thread), maybe it's worth a small reset but ramping up faster than the original progression (e.g. if a trainee stalls at 265, reset to 235, then go straight to 245, 255, then back to 265 so that he/she doesn't accumulate all that fatigue of making 5lb jumps all over again).

Other than a sub-300 stall, I think resets should really be reserved for injuries. Preemptive programming changes are better. If, for example, you're on advanced novice and your Monday workout's last set of squats was totally grinding, I think your chances of missing reps on Friday's workouts are much higher, so you should just plan to do back-off sets. I see no benefits of going for it and ending up with a 5, 4, 3 squat session unless your warm-ups move and feel so great that you know you can do it.

The only tricky part there is trying to figure out if you missed reps because it was a bad day (one shitty night of sleep or something), or if you've truly reached your current limits. In my case, I'm slowing down because of poor recovery, and that's out of my control, unfortunately, so I have to make programming changes in response to my current life situation. One day 315lbs moved fast as hell, then 320 felt like it was 25lbs heavier. Then 325 felt like it was lighter than 320.

Anyway, I've digressed.

[Eric Larousse]

You could do the back offs which is what i prefer. Another option could be to apply the "independents sets" (from Andys 5x5 article)to Novice programming. Andy has a video somewhere where he says he isnt even a fan of resets at all. Anecdotally when I have tried resets during past runs of LP I either got nothing out of them or very little. You dont have to squeeze every single bit out of a LP for it to be a success(duh). HLM is probably the easiest transition as you are still adding weight to the bar and just dropping reps as it gets heavy.

[BBB]

marcf and others,

Wouldn't the change depend on the reason for stalling? For example, if one is stalling because they just don't have 'enough meat on the bones,' I'd think backoffs would be preferred to increase volume and the hypertrophic response (with minimal additional fatigue).

If it's just a matter of making progress, then certainly manipulating the variables as you stated may be a better idea.

Thoughts?

[MattBraunstein]

Other than a sub-300 stall, I think resets should really be reserved for injuries. Preemptive programming changes are better

I have to disagree with this point. I don't think there is any prescribed weight that you should be able to achieve on LP. It will all depend on many, many factors. I think this is exactly why a specific weight target is never mentioned by Rip or any of the SSC's.

[marcf]

I have to disagree with this point. I don't think there is any prescribed weight that you should be able to achieve on LP. It will all depend on many, many factors. I think this is exactly why a specific weight target is never mentioned by Rip or any of the SSC's.

For a 5'10" male weighing 185 pounds, the cause of a stall at 215 pounds vs. 315 pounds is probably going to be very different. Would you really want a 10% reset on someone squatting 315x5x3 and work their way back up making 5lb jumps?