So does the Texas method suck?

[hamburgerfan]

Yes, after the first stall has been hit.

[Tom Narvaez]

would you say the same thing about starting strength?^

Well, it is similar. However, LP makes a lot of sense for most people given that it is only 3-9 months long, you only need to do it once in your entire life, and you'll make the fastest progress of your entire weight lifting "career". So, the big difference here is that even though LP is just as intensive in terms of recovery resources, no one is being told to do LP long term and you *always* get great returns on your investment with a properly run LP (assuming a true novice).

Along the lines of what burgerman said, it doesn't make sense to keep BASHING your head into the wall to get 20-30lbs more out of LP, but the initial run is almost always worth it.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

TM is a not a great program to pick because of "life constraints". It is incredibly expensive in terms of recovery resources and yields low dividends nonetheless. My criticisms of TM stand independent of the fact that it isn't ideal for a competitor. This isn't like 5/3/1 where the program actually works extremely well for time efficiency and just generally working toward other goals. TM requires pretty much ALL of your physical resources to be dedicated towards the weight room and then still doesn't provide very good long term results. That's why it needs to be treated like the end of LP instead of a monolithic template that you run for 1+ year by cycling rep ranges etc.

Well, it is similar. However, LP makes a lot of sense for most people given that it is only 3-9 months long, you only need to do it once in your entire life, and you'll make the fastest progress of your entire weight lifting "career". So, the big difference here is that even though LP is just as intensive in terms of recovery resources, no one is being told to do LP long term and you *always* get great returns on your investment with a properly run LP (assuming a true novice).

Along the lines of what burgerman said, it doesn't make sense to keep BASHING your head into the wall to get 20-30lbs more out of LP, but the initial run is almost always worth it.

Agreed w/ Tom on all.

[BBB]

Agreed w/ Tom on all.

Who let you out of the nutrition forum!?!

Ok, fair enough. I plan on trying your program next. Dissecting it right now to see if it's at all possible to do it in under 2-hours per day

[brettj]

Who let you out of the nutrition forum!?!

Ok, fair enough. I plan on trying your program next. Dissecting it right now to see if it's at all possible to do it in under 2-hours per day

I've been running this (or trying to) for a month now. I find it takes me about 1.5 to 2 hours per workout.

[BBB]

I've been running this (or trying to) for a month now. I find it takes me about 1.5 to 2 hours per workout.

Brett,

I just went through your training log and I see you just started [a modified version of] Jordan's program less than a month ago. I feel like the heavier you go the longer it takes to complete (at least that's my experience). I also see flaws in how you programmed your TM and you definitely prioritized volume over intensity. In reading the logs, that's what did you in. When TM states VD should be 90% of ID, that's if you're doing 1x5 on ID (and even then, you can start scaling back at high weights). As soon as you're doing 2x2 or 2x1/1x2 or anything else, your VD should increase minimally if at all. By adding a ton of stimulus on VD you're killing your ID progress.

Anyway, back to your Jordan program, the #'s you currently have as @8 seems a bit light compared to the work you were doing on TM. It should feel easier, everything is much lighter. For example, you were doing 415x2x2 squats, your @8 should be around 405 (not 385 as it is currently). I mean, you were doing 370x5x5 (granted, they did you in, but no way 385 is @8). Same with bench, I see one of your last ones was 231 @8, but you used to do volume with 222.5x5x5 or higher? I also see you did 245x4, which would make 245 x1@7.

I know you took 2-months off, but you've also been back for almost 3-months now? This is kind of my problem with RPE. I just can't rely on how weight feels. It all feels heavy once you go heavy. The weight I do for 5RM feels just as heavy as the weight I do for 3RM, but the fatigue in my muscles after doing each rep is different. I can't judge that from one rep.

Hope this isn't coming off as negative, I kind of quickly wrote this up and nothing is meant to be personal.

[marcf]

This is kind of my problem with RPE. I just can't rely on how weight feels. It all feels heavy once you go heavy. The weight I do for 5RM feels just as heavy as the weight I do for 3RM, but the fatigue in my muscles after doing each rep is different. I can't judge that from one rep.

It takes a lot of practice, from what I understand. And I think the best way to start learning it is to think about it after you've done your work, rather than while doing your work.

I've started gauging RPE on some of my work sets recently and I've found that there is incongruity with how I feel and how fast the bar moves. The reaction is to then say, "Well, isn't RPE supposed to be based off how you feel, anyway?" Yes, but you don't know what you're feeling when you're feeling it until you feel something else to feel the difference. Get it? Lawl.

That is to say, what felt like an RPE 9 looked like I had two more in the tank, possibly even three, on video. So, the next time I felt like I was at an RPE 9 again, I'd go for one more rep and see how that feels. When I looked at the video again, it looked closer to someone who was moving with one more rep in the tank. So now, when my muscles start to burn the same way and the bar slows down a bit, and I think I can only do one more rep, I know that I can probably do at least two more.

At think at some point you have to know what failure actually feels like to better judge RPE.

[brettj]

Yeh... I mean I was sharing how long the workouts take not looking for a program critique but no offence taken.

I can't really speak to the merits or lack thereof of Jordan's program since I've been at it 3 weeks now. I found most of people's complaints about TM to be true for myself, but as you noticed I didn't exactly do things perfectly.

[Nicky85]

Lucky you guys I was never able to figure out RPE. I was always underestimating and ended up being a volume warrior to reach fatigue. Moreover, the fact that I know that is a demanding training day coming I am somehow prepared mentally.

[kanahan]

Impossible for me to estimate RPEs with any degree of precision. There is one key takeaway I think that I can benefit from: do not train to failure. Most RPE programs I see have most of the work done @7-8-9. Although I can't tell one from the other, I can definitely tell an @10 and now I know not to go there.