Anyone experimented with higher frequency but equal volume and intensity?

[JFick]

My question is has anyone out there tried spreading out their volume over multiple days or had their clients run something similar? Did it work? Or for the programming aficionados​ out there, does the below look reasonable? Tweaks to be made?

The idea coming from "the frequency project" by the Norwegians a few years back; mentioned in this thread here: http://startingstrength.com/resource...ogramming.html . This is allegedly a great way to train, albiet in the one, small, non-peer reviewed, non-published study. Theoretically it could either be great for fatigue management or may not even be enough stress to trigger a SRA cycle.

The guy that said he was going to try it in the above thread had some rather severe extenuating life events that prevented him from running it properly. Other than that I've only able to find one guy that have actually made an attempt to spread his volume out over multiple days. He posted his results on Reddit and he seemed to make great gains over 8 weeks if I remember right. I'm sure there are more out there.

I'm a early intermediate currently doing HLM but with heavy deadlifts on "M" day. I've been contemplating spreading the volume from heavy and medium days up over two more days, and leaving light day alone, for a 5 day split. I go to the gym five days a week anyways, doing cardio in between lifting days, cardio only days are boring as hell, so lifting everyday would be fun I think.

I'm thinking something like this: (for mathematical simplicity, I figure changing 5 x 5 to 6 sets x 4 reps, and 3 sets x 5 reps to 4 x 4. While not perfectly equal in volume, a one rep difference should be negligible)

Day 1 Heavy
Squat 3 sets x 4 reps
Bench 3 x 4
Medium Pulls (half of whatever movement)

Day 2 Medium
Deadlifts 1 x 5 (but only at the weight I would do back-offs at on Day 5)
Incline Bench 2 x 4
Medium Squat 2 x 4

Day 3 Light
Press 3 x 5
Super light front squats 3 x 5
Cleans 3 x 3

Day 4 Heavy
Squat 3 x 4
Bench 3 x 4
Medium Pull (other half of day 1's volume)

Day 5 Medium
Deadlift 1 x 5 heavy and skip the back off set(s)
Incline Bench 2 x 4
Medium Squat 2 x 4

Assistance and cardio as needed.

Perhaps once a month making the last set of the big three on heavy days an AMRAP to monitor strength development and see if I can bump weights up a little quicker. Or if RPE is below 7 I can add faster than the usual 5 per week. Or not...

[SpinyNorman]

No, I don't have any experience doing anything close to what you wrote. I won't let that stop me from typing out a couple quick thoughts though.

Are you set on doing full body five days a week? It doesn't leave much time for recovery. I would run myself into the ground very quickly trying squat and/or pull 5 days in a row.

If I were an early intermediate with 5 days to lift I would probably do something more along the lines of:
Day1 Bench and press
Day2 Squat and deadlift variation
Day3 Assistance work
Day4 Press and bench
Day5 Deadlift and squat

Actually, if I had 5 days to lift I would probably just lift 4 and spread the assistance work out to the other 4 days.

[Bryan Dobson]

My 2cents
You are merely breaking your program up into more days. You need to take into account the SRA cycle and what minimum number of sets is required in a week to make progress.
You would be better off at this stage benching 3x a week for 10-15 work sets total(wave it, for example start low build up and go back low when you get to the top work range,10-12-14-16 work sets a week, repeat)squatting twice a week looking for 12 real work sets same thing start with 10-12-14, you will learn soon what the top range should be and stop before then and cycle back.
And deadlifting 2-5 worksets a week(you could do this in one day of the week) Andy Bakers top set + 2. Back offs would work well here until it doesn't. Then you can add assistance ala RDLS and get more sets. Eventually you will need another day of deadlifting but I would not rush that.

[JFick]

No, I don't have any experience doing anything close to what you wrote. I won't let that stop me from typing out a couple quick thoughts though.

Are you set on doing full body five days a week? It doesn't leave much time for recovery. I would run myself into the ground very quickly trying squat and/or pull 5 days in a row.

If I were an early intermediate with 5 days to lift I would probably do something more along the lines of:
Day1 Bench and press
Day2 Squat and deadlift variation
Day3 Assistance work
Day4 Press and bench
Day5 Deadlift and squat

Actually, if I had 5 days to lift I would probably just lift 4 and spread the assistance work out to the other 4 days.

Thanks for your thoughts.

No, I'm not set on anything. My training partner lifts 3 days (refuses to go 4 lol) so my lay out partly has to do with his schedule. I considered skipping squats day 2 or something. The front squats I just do at the same weight I press, so they are basically inconsequential. I would like to keep a pressing movement everyday. Build a base to layer volume up over time.

My 2cents
You are merely breaking your program up into more days. You need to take into account the SRA cycle and what minimum number of sets is required in a week to make progress.
You would be better off at this stage benching 3x a week for 10-15 work sets total(wave it, for example start low build up and go back low when you get to the top work range,10-12-14-16 work sets a week, repeat) squatting twice a week looking for 12 real work sets same thing start with 10-12-14, you will learn soon what the top range should be and stop before then and cycle back.
And deadlifting 2-5 worksets a week(you could do this in one day of the week) Andy Bakers top set + 2. Back offs would work well here until it doesn't. Then you can add assistance ala RDLS and get more sets. Eventually you will need another day of deadlifting but I would not rush that.

Thanks for chiming in.

Yes breaking up the work into more days was exactly what I was curious about. The equal work but spread over multiple days was what that Norwegian study was looking at. Is creating a huge stressor of 5x5 days necessary all on one day? Could you do that same tonnage over two days and see comparable or even greater results? Thats what the results of that study was hinting at. I'm not sold either way that's why I was looking for people who had tried it.

I agree with everything else you said as far as periodizing things go. Building waves of volume up over a mesocycle is great. I'm currently doing one heavy set and a back off set of deads a week. Looking to add more in later. So if I did that back off set on a different day would it fuck up a whole microcycle? Can the SRA cycle only be initiated by one giant stressor or could that be accumulated over multiple sessions and recover after a few off days?

This is just me thinking out loud, don't feel obligated to answer any of those. But if you would like to I welcome it. Thanks again.

[Bryan Dobson]

Anything can work as long as the work is enough to be a stimulus in the state you are training in and your personal tolerance and response to volume. A couple of sets of RDLS for example on a Saturday may not be enough work as a stand alone. But if you are doing them after squatting twice that week and a solid deadlift session earlier in the week and those sessions have also been hard enough to cause a response, those measly two work sets of RDLS could be appropriate. Since you sound familiar with HLM this may sound familiar.
It is all very similar. There are Just many different ways of organizing the training.

[JFick]

Yea definitely. That's why I think the idea has some merit. HLM is kinda of the same idea, stressing heavy at the beginning and putting a little more volume in throughout the week.

So maybe if I moved an extra set from the second heavy to the first heavy day, making it 4x4 on day 1 and 2x4 on day 4. Bench and squat would get a slightly bigger stressor at the beginning and the rest of the week acts as more stimulus and recovery.

[Bryan Dobson]

You could do it with sets like your example (varying volume per session). You can go along time like this.

[JFick]

I've decided to give this a whirl. To anyone searching in the future you can see how it went here The Slow Grind

[Bryan Dobson]

I think this may actually be a good idea the more I think about it. Even with equal volume you may see accelerated gains from the frequency.