The Starting Strength Method

[The Berserker]

SS is amazing and ahead of the pack in so many ways but the staggering arrogance and willingness to make ridiculously unscientific claims is incredibly strange for a method/community that purports to be all about evidence.

Further, I don't really know if it is possible to be both the most efficient and most effective at any goal simultaneously. Those two attributes are seemingly at odds with each other. The most effective approach is generally far more time intensive than the most efficient approach.

I'll bet my life savings on the fact that many/most male athletes would respond better to and, in many cases, even NEED more than nine sets of five per week to optimize general upperbody strength and hypertrophy. Almost all females will respond better to more work than this nearly regardless of demographic.

SS produces the most reliable and effective squat results for any novice program I've ever seen. Deadlift progress is a little more dubious and appears to be individual on the program. However, I'm confident in saying it doesn't provide enough upperbody work or variety for any of the following novice goals: general strength, upperbody hypertrophy, and, of course, motivation/long term adherence.

Beyond specific criticisms, SS has exactly zero literature to support any of the claims it makes. Zero. But wait, peer reviewed literature is worthless anyway, right? Unless we are talking about mobility, massage, etc then it is valuable again because we like what it says.

Actual physicists challenge the model and point out it is an oversimplification that simply isn't accurate. Mostly, these challenges go unaddressed except by the few SSCs who engage of their own accord.

The body of S&C programming literature disagrees with everything written in PPST beyond the novice phase for the most part. From a practitioner's stand point, many of us have found the program is entirely suboptimal in terms of rate of progression beyond the novice phase which consists of, maybe, 3-6 months of your whole lifting career. Why are we fetishing the shortest part of any strength trainee's lifting history? Sure, it is important to get new people to train --- perhaps more important than anything else. However, this is very different than being the "best program in existence to improve all of human performance".

We could also review the user polls on this site that show where the average LP ended on bench press and then I could show you random kids on the high school football team who easily surpass those numbers in a few months because they do 10-30 bench press sets per week.

Overall, the SS teaching method is without peer in the industry right now. As a whole, the model is probably the best introduction to serious training one can get. However, the absurd claims such as it is the "most effective and most efficient way to increase human performance" are bad enough to be reminiscent of 80s/90s supplement marketing. It's outright false. For a community that values scientific rigor so much, it's startling the level of confidence that is placed behind such a wild claim when the model itself would not hold up well to true, scientific and academic rigor.

Mr. Narvaez, or "Izzy," as he likes to be called, is a former Starting Strength Coach and the creator of Powerlifting To Win.

Having been a part of the Starting Strength Organization, I'm sure he still has many friends in the SS Community.
He's not one to acqueisce. He has the courage to speak up. He's done so in a charitable and critical manner.
I do not know if he has left the organization on good or bad terms. I think his post was well thought out and that not interacting with him is a mistake.
He has a lot to offer, even if he might not be right; but, it's not about being right. It's about discussing and debating in order that all of us get better.

Let's put egos aside and constructively engage with each other. Engaging with Izzy's post would be a great place to start.

I'm thinking about writing a paper, "The Starting Strength Program: A Layperson's Case for Revision." If I do, I will post it here.

[mjrpwrlfting]

That sequence was AWESOME!!!!

[Eric K]

There's no one "most optimal" program...

My problem with all this obsession with "optimal" is that, with SS, we're talking about the novice phase. Granted, lots of people would improve their quality of life if they got stronger. But, to be honest, their quality of life would be leagues better if they did any physically rigorous activity on a regular basis. Am I convinced that lifting would be so much better than other things? Maybe, under certain circumstances. But, regardless, smelling your own fats over the optimal approach to novice gains is like getting excited over the "fastest and most effective way" to make $100. Sure, it's nice to find $100, but it doesn't make much difference 3 years later. If you want to be a serious lifter, the novice phase should be more about setting the conditions for what comes next, and aside from the deficient upper body work, I think that's one area SS could be improved.

[manveer]

smelling your own fats

Hey, I get into the folds. My fats don't smell.

How many people doing novice LP want to be "serious lifters"? 1% might step onto a platform?

[Tim K]

My problem with all this obsession with "optimal" is that, with SS, we're talking about the novice phase. Granted, lots of people would improve their quality of life if they got stronger. But, to be honest, their quality of life would be leagues better if they did any physically rigorous activity on a regular basis. Am I convinced that lifting would be so much better than other things? Maybe, under certain circumstances. But, regardless, smelling your own fats over the optimal approach to novice gains is like getting excited over the "fastest and most effective way" to make $100. Sure, it's nice to find $100, but it doesn't make much difference 3 years later. If you want to be a serious lifter, the novice phase should be more about setting the conditions for what comes next, and aside from the deficient upper body work, I think that's one area SS could be improved.

Your analogy doesn't hold up though because while finding $100 doesn't make a difference 3 years later, someone can properly execute a novice LP, and as long as they can more or less maintain that level of strength it will actually have been a dramatic improvement in their quality of life. It's not like the "real benefits" don't kick in until you're squatting 500.

[Eric K]

How many people doing novice LP want to be "serious lifters"? 1% might step onto a platform?

Right. So why does it matter?

Your analogy doesn't hold up though because while finding $100 doesn't make a difference 3 years later, someone can properly execute a novice LP, and as long as they can more or less maintain that level of strength it will actually have been a dramatic improvement in their quality of life. It's not like the "real benefits" don't kick in until you're squatting 500.

The analogy applies (mostly) to the serious lifters. If anything happens to quality of life at competitive levels of strength, I would guess that it declines. To the extent that it applies to improving quality of life for the sedentary, it's still easily achieved by a variety of means, many better than SS when one considers the element of work capacity and body composition.

[manveer]

Right. So why does it matter?

It doesn't. I agree with you. I think Izzy said the same earlier.

The analogy applies to the serious lifters. If anything happens to quality of life at competitive levels of strength, I would guess that it declines.

Yeah. Going from a ~350 squat to a ~550 squat doesn't help much in day to day life. I had to pull a stuck wheel off my car this spring, but there was probably a smarter way to do that than pulling the shit out of it, like tapping it with a hammer. Maybe if you had to move something really heavy, I dunno.

Meanwhile, I have more aches/pains and spend more time lifting weights. But I like it.

[Eric K]

It doesn't. I agree with you. I think Izzy said the same earlier.



Yeah. Going from a ~350 squat to a ~550 squat doesn't help much in day to day life. I had to pull a stuck wheel off my car this spring, but there was probably a smarter way to do that than pulling the shit out of it, like tapping it with a hammer. Maybe if you had to move something really heavy, I dunno.

Meanwhile, I have more aches/pains and spend more time lifting weights. But I like it.

I thought you were just trying to show off for me...

I like it too, but it creates tension in the home and I can see that it will not remain as prominent in a few years. I gots to get something memorable done soon for my own sanity.

[Savs]

Welp, it looks lie I picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue, strike trhough, to check in with the upside-down world. What is that shit-show upstairs? Holy hell! It's entertainment, I guess.

someone can properly execute a novice LP, and as long as they can more or less maintain that level of strength it will actually have been a dramatic improvement in their quality of life.

In my opinion, this is patently false. It makes for some nice marketing, though, doesn't it?

Eric, manveer, how you guys doin'? Hanley, you still kicking around?

[Tim K]

In my opinion, this is patently false.

In my experience, it's true. So there.

Honestly I do feel better, more confident, etc. having gotten stronger. I will concede that for some people they don't mind being weak and wouldn't experience the same perceived benefits. However, I'm only 32. I'm guessing the real benefits of getting strong and maintaining a decent level of strength become much more apparent and tangible as a person ages and is better able to avoid sinking into decrepitude.