Post-novice female HLM oly lifting routine

[Hexagon]

Hey guys

I was just wondering what you all think about this routine i've come up with for my girlfriend, fresh of her LP. I'm not too experienced in HLM programming, and neither olympic weightlifting.

Her current stats after exhausting the LP on squats and deads and doing oly lifts for a month are :
Bw 60kg age 19
High bar atg squat 95kg x 3
Clean style Deadlift 95 x 3
Snatch 35kg
Power jerk 40kg
Clean 62.5kg
Bench press 47.5kg 5x3
Front squat 70kg 3x3

Her final stage of LP looked like this (for the strength lifts)

Monday:
Squat 3rm +4x3 @90% of 3rm
Deadlift 2x3 or benchpress 5x3
Snatch

Wednesday
Front squat 3x3
Deadlift 2x3 or bench press 5x3
Jerk

Friday
Squat 3rm +4x3@90% of 3rm
Deadlift 2x3 or bench press 5x3
Clean

Going forward, i was thinking of having her squat HLM mon wed friday with an additional back of set on heavy day compared to her final stage of Lp and reducing the frequency of deadlifts to bring in some push pressing. For squats and deads i'm thinking of rotating reps on heavy day over a 3 week cycle, keeping medium day constant and only increasing it cycle-to-cycle

Mon heavy
Squat 90x3 + 5x3@90% of 3rm/ 95x2 +5x2@90 of 2rm/ 100x1 +5x2@90%1rm
Bench 5x3
Snatch

Wed light
Front squat 3x3
Deadlift 2x3 / 2x2 / 3x1
Jerk

Fri medium
Squat 5x3@90%3rm
Push press 4x3
Clean

My only concern is that fridays squats will be too much of a stress, making it a heavy day(?) I'm also worried that the drop in reps on mondays heavy day wont be enough of a volume drop to dissipate fatigue, perhaps a 4th deload week would be beneficial to ensure progress cycle-to-cycle... Thoughts?

[ad3000]

My main thought is that there is not enough frequency on the olympic lifts to become very good at them. If the main focus is on improving the olympic lifts, why would you only have 1x a week frequency for them? Some light skill work would be better than nothing.

I.e.:

Mon: Heavy snatch, Clean skill work;
Wed: Heavy jerk, Snatch skill work;
Fri: Heavy clean, Jerk skill work. (you could also do this as say a clean and jerk 3+1 to get in some extra work on the jerk that is heavier than skill work, obviously she will need to get better at jerks to be able to do this)

I would argue you could change the program to put in more heavy olympic work though.

Also what are you doing in terms sets and reps for the oly lifts?

Why can't she make weekly progress on the squat and deadlift, is it to keep the stress lower to enable a focus on the olympic lifts?

Why not do some easier higher rep squats (which will allow some extra less stressful volume to be accrued) on the medium day to develop muscle mass in the legs, which, in turn, will facilitate getting stronger?

Why no strict pressing either?

I would also question why you are so worried about dissipating fatigue? Is she peaking for a meet in three weeks? I doubt it, so why would having fatigue be an issue when she is trying to get stronger? Fatigue will happen if you are training to improve and having deloads and/or light days when needed can reset the fatigue when it becomes a problem.

These are just some food for thought comments and I am not saying you have to do all or any of them.

[Hexagon]

My main thought is that there is not enough frequency on the olympic lifts to become very good at them. If the main focus is on improving the olympic lifts, why would you only have 1x a week frequency for them? Some light skill work would be better than nothing.

I.e.:

Mon: Heavy snatch, Clean skill work;
Wed: Heavy jerk, Snatch skill work;
Fri: Heavy clean, Jerk skill work. (you could also do this as say a clean and jerk 3+1 to get in some extra work on the jerk that is heavier than skill work, obviously she will need to get better at jerks to be able to do this)

I would argue you could change the program to put in more heavy olympic work though.

Also what are you doing in terms sets and reps for the oly lifts?

Why can't she make weekly progress on the squat and deadlift, is it to keep the stress lower to enable a focus on the olympic lifts?

Why not do some easier higher rep squats (which will allow some extra less stressful volume to be accrued) on the medium day to develop muscle mass in the legs, which, in turn, will facilitate getting stronger?

Why no strict pressing either?

I would also question why you are so worried about dissipating fatigue? Is she peaking for a meet in three weeks? I doubt it, so why would having fatigue be an issue when she is trying to get stronger? Fatigue will happen if you are training to improve and having deloads and/or light days when needed can reset the fatigue when it becomes a problem.

These are just some food for thought comments and I am not saying you have to do all or any of them.

Thanks for your response!

I'm 100% with you on increased exposure to the olympic lifts would make her proficient much faster! The reason i've opted for once a week frequency on each component is because of time constraints - my girlfriend has issues training consistently as is. We're currently halfway through a bet; if she trains consistently 3 days a week for 3 months without skipping any exercises i will buy her a pair of nike romaleos 3. Prior to our bet she's mostly prioritized her squat, going home after her work sets if pressed on time. I believe she has what it takes to be a decent weightlifter; she has great mobility and body awareness. Thats why i'm so invested in her training

Her current oly lift programming is:
Monday
snatch pull+snatch 5x2+1

Wednesday
Power jerk 5x2

Friday
Hang clean + clean 5x1+1

With a weight that is challenging but still looks alright (she's a beginner so i'm not expecting it to look perfect)

She is about to graduate though, so in about a month she will be able to devote more time to olympic lifting. I'm planning to add another day of training then with heavy singles in the full competition lifts, and also preface every training session with a technique drill relevant to the lift that day (light and quick, probably snatch segment deadlift+snatch pull, jerk dip squats and muscle cleans based on her current technical errors)

The reason why we dont strict press is because of her wrist issues. They are very fragile due to doing gymnastics all throughout her youth. She can do every other supportive motion except strict press with a narrow grip

She can probably get by with weekly progress, we've been LPing her top set 3rm with 1kg every other session (back squat/front squat). Her front squat is not yet stuck. Every time she stalls she sees a decrease in performance, she went from
monday 95kgx3 back offs triples-> wednesday Front squat 3x3->
friday 96x1(fail, no back offs to aid recovery) ->
monday 95x1(fail, 90x3 + back offs with singles instead of triples to decrease volume)

So i figured a 3 week cycle would make sure she doesnt underrecover... We could definetly include a deload week instead of cycling rep ranges

The reason why we stick to 3's and lower instead of any higher rep sets is because PPST3 says that women respond better to lower reps

Thanks again

[MBasic]

If three days a week, I recommend this for the classic lifts.
Work your strength stuff in accordingly of course.

one day: Clean and Jerk

one day: Snatch

another day: Jerks AND some kind of snatch assistance; like OHS, or snatch balance, or snatch drops . . .something that focuses on fixing the snatch overhead.

basically the snatch and jerk are the trickiest IMO . . . and most technique dependant.
The clean should not be. (easiest technique wise).
So you are getting two Jerk sessions and two snatch sessions per week. . . .one clean session.

The Squats, deads, and presses? you are going to figure that out on your own and it depends where the lifter is at with things.

Doing strength stuff first really fucks with my snatch.
I think a person should snatch first, and on that day squat last.

[limace31]

Hi Hexagon!

You should have her start with the oly lifts and finish with strength work. Squats, presses and deadlifts will suffer and you will have to do a bigger reset though.

Maybe try to snatch on Monday and Friday and C&J on Wednesday. She needs exposure to the full lifts, especially with the snatch, before she's good enough to need assistance exercices (jerks, snatch / clean pulls, blocks work, etc.). From what I understand, she does not have too much time anyway so why not just train the full lifts? But that is your call.

One thing: I would have her deadlift on Friday so that she has the whole weekend to recover.

Best,

[Moriel218]

Hi Hexagon!

You should have her start with the oly lifts and finish with strength work. Squats, presses and deadlifts will suffer and you will have to do a bigger reset though.

Maybe try to snatch on Monday and Friday and C&J on Wednesday. She needs exposure to the full lifts, especially with the snatch, before she's good enough to need assistance exercices (jerks, snatch / clean pulls, blocks work, etc.). From what I understand, she does not have too much time anyway so why not just train the full lifts? But that is your call.

One thing: I would have her deadlift on Friday so that she has the whole weekend to recover.

Best,

I have a question.

Why is it usually suggested to have jerks, clean pulls, overhead squats, etc, past beginner stage?

It looks to me that doing separate smaller movements early on can develop confidence and a clearer judgement when doing full lifts. Does it not?

[limace31]

It is not. Many coaches include assistance exercises such as jerks and pulls right from the start.

However, when time is an issue, which is better: doing the full lifts or the assistance?

Past the beginner's stage (as far as proficiency is concerned) assistance exercises can be added to correct technique issues. It is like fine-tuning. I do not believe in them as confidence builder though.

Again, many people thrive with a lot of assistance exercises.

Edit: where I train the coaches have the newbies and the regulars do a shit ton of assistance. They call them "les éducatifs". By the time they finish the bajillion reps they just have a couple of minutes left to do squats with 2-3 min rest while they are completely gassed out.

[Moriel218]

It is not. Many coaches include assistance exercises such as jerks and pulls right from the start.

However, when time is an issue, which is better: doing the full lifts or the assistance?

Past the beginner's stage (as far as proficiency is concerned) assistance exercises can be added to correct technique issues. It is like fine-tuning. I do not believe in them as confidence builder though.

Again, many people thrive with a lot of assistance exercises.

Edit: where I train the coaches have the newbies and the regulars do a shit ton of assistance. They call them "les éducatifs". By the time they finish the bajillion reps they just have a couple of minutes left to do squats with 2-3 min rest while they are completely gassed out.

What is your opinion on which is a better routine for a complete beginner in oly lifting with some strength background (LP):

this: Transitioning to Olympic Weightlifting | 70's Big

or this:

Day 1
Power Clean/Clean x 3 x 5
Squat x 5 x 5
Press x 5 x 5

Day 2
Hang Snatch x 1 x 10 EMOM
Bench Press x 5 x 3
Front Squat x 3 x 5

Day 3
Squat x 5RM
Press x 5 RM
Rack Jerks x 3 x 3

Day 4
Snatch x 1 x 5
Clean and Jerk x 1 x 5
Clean Pull x 5 x 1

I guess the first one?
I have small amount of time to decide before I transition from LP.

[limace31]

Let's not hijack the original thread but...

I like Justin's program's simplicity and volume.

The one you outlined is a modification of Jordan's 4 day TM and is probably too much if you are not a young, committed lifter.

In the end, pick a program, be consistent and have fun ;-)

[Hexagon]

Hi Hexagon!

You should have her start with the oly lifts and finish with strength work. Squats, presses and deadlifts will suffer and you will have to do a bigger reset though.

Maybe try to snatch on Monday and Friday and C&J on Wednesday. She needs exposure to the full lifts, especially with the snatch, before she's good enough to need assistance exercices (jerks, snatch / clean pulls, blocks work, etc.). From what I understand, she does not have too much time anyway so why not just train the full lifts? But that is your call.

One thing: I would have her deadlift on Friday so that she has the whole weekend to recover.

Best,

Hey! Yeah ideally she would be doing the quick lifts first, but since she still values squatting the most i'm having a hard time convincing her to clean heavy prior to attempting a squat pr. Perhaps, as MBasic suggested, i could convince her to snatch first on a light or medium squat day since her snatch is still so light that it would only act as a prolonged warmup for the legs, on a day when the intensity is reduced either way

The reason i've split up her clean and jerk is because her best clean is 20kg more than her best jerk so i dont feel like her clean would be getting a training effect at such hampered intensities. I really liked 3+1 clean and jerk like ad3000 suggested, she could probably do that.

Deadlifting on friday is a great idea, thanks