Modifying PL program for general strength

[Moriel218]

I think there's a website that starts with 'body' and ends in 'building' that's for dudes afraid of gaining any amount of fat. If you like being weak with visible abs, head over there and they'll give you all the encouragement you need to stay weak and lean. Otherwise, don't be surprised/offended/mad when everyone around here tells you to eat more, gain weight and get stronger.

Is this directed to me?

Never had abs, even on lowest BW possible, and never will. I have a fat gut. I didn't say I'm not bulking despite it. But facts are facts. "Gaining 50kg weight" is just getting tedious, mostly because its all that such discussions boil down to.

[Tom Narvaez]

1) six sets of weekly benching is not enough even if you add "assistance". My PTW programs used workup sets and load drops where you did 3-5 Sets even on intensity day. There was a second benching exercise on "volume" day and I even had most people doing incline on "light day" for three days of benching.

2) okay, sure, if you have a squat fetish that's cool. As a novice, the squat more reliably drives gains in the deadlift than it does as an intermediate/advanced lifter. I still think deadlift volume is too low though which is why you can note that my novice and early intermediate programs have much more than SS.

3) you're really caught up on the title I guess, but it isn't an important point. I also had titles like "Why I Wouldn't Westside" and "Bulgarian Method: Bad, Best, or Both". It's a standard IM tactic to get more clicks but you'll notice the content is more moderate just like it was in the TM article.


There's nothing wrong with 4 day upper/lower splits. They can be really solid. If you want to modify the loving hell out of TM then you can make a decent "TM" split too.

[Aaron Montgomery]

Is this directed to me?

I thought I was interacting with the OP, but this thread is awfully busy this morning. As far as gaining 50kg of weight goes, sure it's tedious, but that's basically my goal. I weighed 130lb in 2011, am 198lb now, and would like to hit 230-250 eventually.

[Eric Larousse]

I think for the large majority of us we simply need cookie cutter percentage based templates. Im willing to bet that is why the majority of us even found Starting Strength because we just wanted a program to follow that would produce results. We just want something that allows us to go to the gym on autopilot and progress because quite frankly it just gives us something positive in our lives without following some generic bodybuilding routine for years on end win no noticable progress.

When you start talking about really advanced programming and cutting and bulking , rpe etc. this is just too much for the average Worker to think about all the time IMO.

Personally I dont think it is worth it to bulk up to 242 pounds from 190 to drive however many hours and pay money to do 3 lifts just to say i am a good powerlifter. This is not knock on people that do because if that is what motivates them then good for them. I just want a cookie cutter program that allows me to have something positive to do in my life and be a little stronger and look a little better. I am happy at my current weight but i am trying to recomp a bit to look you know more ripped at maybe 15 or little less bodyfat(currently 19%)while staying my same weight. The truth is like nobody needs to be able squat 700 pounds or bench 500 pounds for a good quality life and stress themselves out with all the shit you must do to do such a thing.

[Moriel218]

I guess you have some kind of problem with Izzy - maybe ask him about his programs. I think he's presented well-reasoned arguments about why 4-day splits aren't the best option for natural lifters.

No, I don't. I am doing PTW for a year now, and considered to buy coaching services from Izzy, but then I changed some priorities and got obsessed with olympic lifting. So I'm having this discussion as I'm working, so time runs faster, and for fun.
I don't know where you're getting this, but the only thing I'm alergic to is blind following. Just because someone said TM sucks and "this and this is the next new thing", doesn't make it so. Everyone can change opinions but I doubt Rippetoe did in regards to TM, as per The Texas Method | T Nation .

In fact it says something about UP here: "You ignored the fools who told you that undulating periodization was the way to go".

My point is, again, about more general applications of TM templates, not for powerlifting specifics, so DL low volume doesn't concern me much. And here I ask again - what about SS then? Does it receive any critique on similar grounds?

Also, one example of reasoning is not alpha and omega, so this DL volume idea is open to discussion: No Deadlifting article - Bodybuilding.com Forums (couldn't dig out any direct link)

[Soulreaper]

Now you are, I find that statement laughable and the dogmatic opinion that you can't be reasonably strong while staying relatively lean. Are fat cells moving weight more effectively than muscle?

[manveer]

No, I don't. I am doing PTW for a year now, and considered to buy coaching services from Izzy, but then I changed some priorities and got obsessed with olympic lifting. So I'm having this discussion as I'm working, so time runs faster, and for fun.
I don't know where you're getting this, but the only thing I'm alergic to is blind following. Just because someone said TM sucks and "this and this is the next new thing", doesn't make it so. Everyone can change opinions but I doubt Rippetoe did in regards to TM, as per The Texas Method | T Nation .

In fact it says something about UP here: "You ignored the fools who told you that undulating periodization was the way to go".

Cool, another even older article. Rip said recently that most people shouldn't default to TM as an intermediate program. Most people aren't young men with high T.

My point is, again, about more general applications of TM templates, not for powerlifting specifics, so DL low volume doesn't concern me much. And here I ask again - what about SS then? Does it receive any critique on similar grounds?

As Izzy said, the squat drives the DL more at lower levels of advancement, so the volume isn't as important as a novice.

[Moriel218]

1) six sets of weekly benching is not enough even if you add "assistance". My PTW programs used workup sets and load drops where you did 3-5 Sets even on intensity day. There was a second benching exercise on "volume" day and I even had most people doing incline on "light day" for three days of benching.

2) okay, sure, if you have a squat fetish that's cool. As a novice, the squat more reliably drives gains in the deadlift than it does as an intermediate/advanced lifter. I still think deadlift volume is too low though which is why you can note that my novice and early intermediate programs have much more than SS.

3) you're really caught up on the title I guess, but it isn't an important point. I also had titles like "Why I Wouldn't Westside" and "Bulgarian Method: Bad, Best, or Both". It's a standard IM tactic to get more clicks but you'll notice the content is more moderate just like it was in the TM article.


There's nothing wrong with 4 day upper/lower splits. They can be really solid. If you want to modify the loving hell out of TM then you can make a decent "TM" split too.

Ok, thanks.

Just as a side note, on cca year with PTW, my deadlift was always "buried" at the end of a workout. Not saying against it or anything, if you prefer to train as close to the competition circumstances as possible, and it probably is going to increase to the max potential by the time you're ready for a meet, its just that I couldn't really see where my DL is at, after all the squatting and benching(matters less but still), which became more apparent at the later stages.

[Aaron Montgomery]

Now you are, I find that statement laughable and the dogmatic opinion that you can't be reasonably strong while staying relatively lean. Are fat cells moving weight more effectively than muscle?

Have fun trying to get reasonably strong without being in a caloric surplus. Also, good luck being in a caloric surplus without gaining fat with your muscle. There's a reason so many powerlifters bulk and cut...

[Cody]

OP: your program choices are irrelevant right this second because your a skinny twat and you need to be told that.

Story time: I am 183cm, went from 70.5kg to 94.5kg in a year, WITH abs. Two years later, I was at 97kg, with abs. During this time, get this, I had low testosterone. I'm talking double digit test. 247kg squat, 165.5kg bench, and 251.5kg deadlift, all while at 99dL/ng test.

Gaining weight isn't hard, but it can be uncomfortable. It is, however, key for gains.