Programming Chins and Dips

[D14BL0]

Hey

I was wondering how I should program chin ups and dips.

Do i ever need to deload them, and when and how should I do it?

Help would be appreciated.

[Igor]

Some info about you would be useful. Sex, age, height, weight, current PRs and program, your goals... You know basic stuff.

In general, assuming you already can do a couple of them, just slowly try to add reps until you can do let's say 12 or 15 per set. Then start adding weight to them working within the rep range that suits your goals and their role in the program. As far as deloading goes since they are BW movements they put relatively less stress on the body, I would just deload them alongside everything else.

[D14BL0]

Some info about you would be useful. Sex, age, height, weight, current PRs and program, your goals... You know basic stuff.

In general, assuming you already can do a couple of them, just slowly try to add reps until you can do let's say 12 or 15 per set. Then start adding weight to them working within the rep range that suits your goals and their role in the program. As far as deloading goes since they are BW movements they put relatively less stress on the body, I would just deload them alongside everything else.

33 years old, Male, 182 cm, 80kg(176lb)

I'm getting ready to begin starting strength and I'm not that strong yet.
I understand how to do the main exercises but not the chins and dips. Should I just do 3 sets AMRAP for each and not worry about needing to deload? or is there a system for progression and deloads?

[Igor]

If you're just starting doing the program then don't worry about them. Just do the basic barbell lifts. After a while, when Power Cleans are introduced chinups can be a nice addition to do 1x or 2x per week. Personally I don't find dips to be that useful, it's better to focus on the presses. Wait at least to the advanced novice stage before you even consider adding them.

Hope that helps!

[perman]

33 years old, Male, 182 cm, 80kg(176lb)

I'm getting ready to begin starting strength and I'm not that strong yet.
I understand how to do the main exercises but not the chins and dips. Should I just do 3 sets AMRAP for each and not worry about needing to deload? or is there a system for progression and deloads?

The book mentions they are assistance exercises for a reason, namely that they are hard to systematically progress. If you microload how much you put on a belt, that's a lot of hassle for something that varies for bodyweight and particularly if you do them as the 4th exercise as many do. That's not to say "don't microload", rather don't expect your performance will be that predictable on a body weight movement.

There are various alternative methods of programming for chins.
1) You can use density blocks, namely that you for instance over 7 minutes try to increase the number of reps you can do over that time interval over time.
2) It's normal to introduce weighted variants once you can do around 10-15 in a set. A typical way to program around these parts is pseudo Texas Method, namely doing either unweighted or weighted 5x5 on Monday, and then doing something heavier on friday like 1x5 + 1 or 2 back-off sets or 3x5 for instance.

I do option 2, and just do unweighted 3xAMRAP Monday and weighted 3x5 Friday just for simplicity and since I don't feel like doing density block later in a session. Overthinking assistance exercises is just not worth it from people's experience.

[Igor]

Overthinking assistance exercises is just not worth it from people's experience.

Exactly. Especially that they are typically done after a few heavy barbell lifts, already fatigued and they involve less muscle mass so it's really hard to progress on them at a rapid pace. If your barbell lifts and BW go up but you stall on chins I guarantee you you're getting stronger.

One of the simpliest option to program BW movements is to pick a rep range to work with eg. 3 sets of 6-10 reps. You start at 6 reps and try to get to 10 over time. After you get 10 reps on each set you add weight and start the "cycle" again from 6 reps/set. From what I've heard some bodybuilders back in a day (50s,60s) where using a similar system for their big compounds as well. An interesting option for an advanced intermediate who doesn't want to overcomplicate his programming.

[cgeorg]

One of the simpliest option to program BW movements is to pick a rep range to work with eg. 3 sets of 6-10 reps. You start at 6 reps and try to get to 10 over time. After you get 10 reps on each set you add weight and start the "cycle" again from 6 reps/set. From what I've heard some bodybuilders back in a day (50s,60s) where using a similar system for their big compounds as well. An interesting option for an advanced intermediate who don't want to overcomplicate his programming.

This is how I do all my assistance stuff, except I go up once I hit 3x12, hoping for at least 3x8 at the new weight.

[perman]

One of the simpliest option to program BW movements is to pick a rep range to work with eg. 3 sets of 6-10 reps. You start at 6 reps and try to get to 10 over time.

That sounds appealing, may try that out for dips/chins...

[El Rojo]

One of the simpliest option to program BW movements is to pick a rep range to work with eg. 3 sets of 6-10 reps. You start at 6 reps and try to get to 10 over time. After you get 10 reps on each set you add weight and start the "cycle" again from 6 reps/set. From what I've heard some bodybuilders back in a day (50s,60s) where using a similar system for their big compounds as well. An interesting option for an advanced intermediate who doesn't want to overcomplicate his programming.

I don't like that sort of system at all, both for physiological and psychological reasons. Unless you're a novice on that specific exercise, it inevitably leads you to repeat the same workouts week in and week out hoping to scratch an extra rep.

I think it's better to cycle the rep ranges on assistance exercises once linear progress is impossible, similar to what we do with the basic movements:

w1: 3x6
w2: 3x10
w3: 3x6 +2,5kg
etc.

(for a more advanced trainee a 3 or 4 week cycle may be better)

Another system I like to employ is similar but rotating weights instead of rep ranges, specially usefull for dumbbell lifts:

w1: 20kg DBs x12
w2: 26kg DBs x7
w3: 20kg DBs x14
w4: 26kg DBs x8
etc.

(once you surpass a certain rep range you deem reasonable, replace for a heavier pair)

It's a little bit more complex, yes, but not unnecessarily so IMO.

[Gorilladiesel]

I'd say dips are basically dubious at best, some people swear by weighted dips but other people can't do BW dips without shoulder aggravation. Definitely less trainable than benching or pressing. At my gym there's a dip/chin station right next to the benches and my buddy who I've been trying to get on the SS train forever will sometimes do dips in between bench sets and it's like "dude you're fatiguing yourself for absolutely no reason right now"
"nah it's cool"
Then he fails 2 bench sets.
I Got him on SS for a workout or two and now he's doing some stupid bastardized LP written by some guy who thinks starting strength isn't good enough after decades of refinement, and that he himself knows better than our Lord and savior Mark Rippetoe. At least I got him from high bar ATG to low bar to depth. Currently just waiting until this shit fails him and he finally caves to me.