Reply With QuoteI dont know who regularly gets 8 hrs of uninterrupted sleep or when a deviation from that is something that needs therapy or medication, but iif I were in you shoes, I'd clean up the diet and get a form check, preferably in person from an SSC.
cwd
I don't mean to disrespect drugs and therapy -- insomnia is terrible and people should do what it takes to conquer it.
But the guy that started this thread stated that he's short on cash though, so he should definitely try the cheaper options first.
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I dont know who regularly gets 8 hrs of uninterrupted sleep or when a deviation from that is something that needs therapy or medication, but iif I were in you shoes, I'd clean up the diet and get a form check, preferably in person from an SSC.
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this topic is of extreme interest to me. I wake up about 4 to 6 times a night, which leaves me tired and under-recovered. I just posted something to Jordan on this...waiting for him to review/respond...so not public yet.
I mentioned this in my annual physical and the regular Doc sent me to a sleep Doc. Sleep Doc suspected Apnea, but fortunately (for my health), unfortunately (for my gainzzz), the home sleep study resulted in 4 apneas per hour...which does not qualify as a treatable condition (by insurance). Sleep doc has me scheduled with for a CBT eval. I already follow the sleep hygiene...best I can at least. I've tried melatonin and it doesn't help me too much...as falling asleep is fine. Ambien works great, but hard to get recurring prescriptions for it. Not sure I want to depend on that for the rest of my life anyways...
anyone have experience with CBT for sleep?
Also, anyone know if dropping bodyfat improves sleep? I know improving sleep can help body composition...through better recovery. But does it work the other way? A read a few articles (NOT STUDIES...so this could be total internet bullshit) that claims it does.
Anecdotally, my sleep has improved a little as I have dropped 13lbs so far. E.g., I actually wake up and remember dreaming now, I don't remember dreaming for a long time...before losing the weight, so possibly I am now hitting more REM sleep?
Excuse the lack of any science behind.
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I think one treatment for sleep apnea is weight loss. So dropping those 13 lbs may have helped you already.
CBT will obviously involve another person, i.e. a therapist so if you are into sharing things about your fears and anxiety and learning from another person listen you might gain something. As I see it, with therapy or medication, you are giving up some control and from how it looks to me, CBT tries to give that back to you at some point after teaching you how to handle it. I'm sure it is more sophisticated than that, but if you're waiting for an appointment, you might want to look into reading some of the classic self help books on positive thinking. Some very simple thought techniques can prevent anxious feelings or get over everyday situations where your mind starts racing like being stuck in traffic, getting onto an airplane in a storm, or waking up in the middle of the night.
Enjoy those dreams!
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Totally agree, the weight loss may be helping. Hopefully I am heading towards a virtuous cycle of fat loss, better sleep, more gainzzz.... I'll report back for posterity sake after the CBT eval in a few weeks.
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I'll add my two cents regarding sleep.
Normal sleep for me was taking at least 2 hours to fall asleep (often more) and waking 3-4 times a night, a night being roughly 7-9 hours in bed. I never experience waking up rested in the morning until two different nights in my 20s. I still remember what that was like. I can't imagine that there are people who get that regularly. It would be life altering...
Anyhow, currently 36 years old. Got diagnosed with psychophysiological insomnia when I was concerned about my employment. (falling asleep at my desk and being late to work...) I was able to participate in a few months of cognitive behavioural therapy, which largely focused on sleep hygiene.
My sleep has definitely improved. As for the therapy, you could likely accomplish and figure out the same things yourself online. But the weekly therapy (in a group, in my case) just made it easy to be intentional and simple. To improve it, you need to keep a sleep log to track it and any changes so you know if anything is improving.
The tips that had the biggest impact on me were:
1. just getting a diagnosis and recognition that my sleep isn't actually considered normal.
a. This helps realize that I've been functioning this long with crappy sleep. Worst case is I'll be tired again tomorrow, but I'll still make it through the day. Really not that bad of a worst case.
b. That line of thinking stopped the anxiety around "if I fall asleep right now I'll get 2hours and 40 minutes of sleep" or "my alarm is going to go off in 47 minutes"
2. I liked having one of those projection alarm clocks that displays the time on the ceiling. All I had to do was open one eye to know what time it is. Years of doing that has given me a perfect internal clock, but I was definitely always doing the "I've been laying here trying to fall asleep for 2.5 hr. If I fall asleep right now I'll get 4.5 hours of sleep" Now don't use the projection feature, and I point the clock away from my bed so I can't see it. It took a while, but I don't think about it any more.
Honestly, those two things probably helped me more than anything else, but lots of other little sleep hygiene items also add up to a large improvement also.
Hopefully some of you other guys struggling with sleep find this a bit helpful. CBT definitely helped me out some.
As for sleep affecting the lifting, I missed my first squat rep ever last workout after camping the previous weekend and missing a workout and getting next to no sleep. I also caught a cold, likely because of the lack of sleep. So yeah, I think they're connected. I feel like I'm more tired and sleeping better in general since I started novice linear progression with SS too.
cwd
Lifting helps my sleep too, except when I lift too close to bedtime.
And I also benefit from *not* tracking the time once I go to bed. Worrying about insomnia is the definition of self-defeating behavior!
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I'm not 100% sure I have a handle on how this forum works - I keep losing replies, so sorry to revive this old thread.
If sleep is the problem, then it ain't getting fixed. I've been to doctors, therapists, hypnotists and charlatans to get my sleep fixed. So has my mother and her father, both of whom suffer from very similar patterns of insomnia. The "solution" in as much as there is one was to leave a regular 9-5 job schedule, a thing which being an actor has afforded me anyway.
If anyone has *questions* about sleep problems, I've tried just about every solution, and will happily talk about it.
I've reposted my form check, hoping this one actually goes through. I've just got back from a short out-of-town run and my workouts have been erratic for about 2 weeks, so I'll be working on getting more regular anyway.
✓ Member
I understand. This was why I mentioned a service that was only $149. I know it's not cheap, but it's a pittance compared to actually going to a therapist for CBT.Originally Posted by cwd
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Your form check is up and answered by Tom on 7/21, it's just made its way to the second page: http://startingstrength.com/resource...orm-check.html
Easiest thing to fix is pause between reps at the top, breathe, and reset your Valsalva. That alone should help.
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