Hang cleans without bumpers = hurt lower back?

[Dag]

Well, according to Mr. Crocks, Power Lifters not doing powercleans is just because:
. of lack of education;
. . a under-exposure to published research (the basic inability to read);
. . . and not willing to experiment on any level with them whatsoever for the mere chance of any gainz.

duh

Sorta like how Chinese Weightlifting coaches have never thought about the first 6" of the 1st pull being perfectly vertical to their benefit.
Like that?
Never happened or was ever considered.

I dont know anything about Chinese weightlifting so I'll take your word for it.

[MBasic]

I dont know anything about Chinese weightlifting so I'll take your word for it.

I don't much either. Just a snarky response. Same idea. Dumbass powerlifters never read a ex.phys.study? and applied all the Power Magik to the their training? doubt it.

Just like elite Weightlifting coaches never thought/tried: "hey, we should clean like a maximal deadlift, cuz efficiency and all". doubt it

[Aaron Montgomery]

the first rep was mariginally ok (talking about the drop and catch).

the others, your arms go limp until it finally reaches bottom, and the weight jerks your back over.

yeah, could why you hurt yourself.... let it drop, don't let it jerk your back over, bend your knees and hips, catch it high on your legs, your arm will be slightly bent when you catch it

I hear what you're saying, and I can picture it in my head, but I can't get my body to do that, even with an empty bar. The bar just slams into the top of my thighs by the time I manage to catch it.

I think I'm going to shelf this lift for now, till I can schedule a session with Austin Baraki (assuming he convinces me that I have to do the movement). In my mind this lift has a high-risk:low-reward ratio, and I don't want to mess up my back or something before I get the technique figured out. That aside, I'm still not convinced cleans will help my deadlift as much as other lifts that are similar to the deadlift (RDL, SLDL, deficits, rack pulls, etc).

[manveer]

I know I will immediately regret responding, but...

Thanks Kenny. Appreciate your thoughts.

You are aware, aren't you, that you said Westside works? Comments like that will get you eighty-sixed from here. Westside only works if you're a high squatting, gear wearing, steroid abuser. Or so it's been said.

Westside can make you a stronger powerlifter, but for raw, natural lifters you can do a lot better in terms of programming.

[Dag]

I know I will immediately regret responding, but...



Westside can make you a stronger powerlifter, but for raw, natural lifters you can do a lot better in terms of programming.

I don't disagree.

[manveer]

I've been running Glenn Pendlay's program, The Texas Method, using the peer reviewed template.

Things are going well.

As long as it's peer reviewed. And doesn't use RPE.

[Kenny Crox]

Not everyone is proficient learning a lift in the abstract.

It's An Excuse

..., a poor one. As someone once said, "Successful individuals are willing to do what other won't".

Self Education

Learning something on your own is doable, even if you are a slow learner.

The key to learning an succeeding is persistence.

Did he go to Squatting, Bench Pressing or Deadlifting "School" to learn those lift that he preforming?

Since he has had some past medical issues, I'd err on the side of caution...

Caution

I am a fan of caution.

However, the fact that he has no back issues with Squats or Deadlifts are an indication that his back issue problem with the his Power Clean is technique; catching the bar on his belt definitively illustrates that.

...and prefer he seek out someone proficient at coaching fast lifts, and having him work back up from scratch.

Finding A Proficient Coach

1) That's not likely going to happen. They are hard to find.

2) Multiple coaching session are necessary. Most individuals are not willing to put out the money for multiple sessions.

3) I provide a link to Harvey Newton's "Explosive Lifting" (Olympic Lifting) videos. Newton provides an excellent tutorial.

4) As I previously noted, Newton's training video tutorial combined with filming your Power Clean, are an effective way to learn on your own.

The Learning Curve

The learning curve with self education is a little longer but it doable.

Self learning is a vital component of life, especially scientific research.

As Einstein said regarding learning on his own, "Research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing".

One of the upsides of self learning is that individual analytical skills improved.

If he is pulling the DL correctly, he's building his PC capacity....

Not Quite

1) Strength is the foundation on which Power is built. However, Power Training is a completely different animal.

The training protocol for Power is different from Strength Training.

2) Deadlifting does not develop any Power Clean skill.

No matter how good a Deadlifter that a Powerlifter is, there is NO conversion of the Deadlift skill to the Power Clean. As a Powerlifter who has coached other Powerlifters on the Olympic Pulls, the majority initial technique is all over the road.

anyhow, so when the technique is in good order, he'll see faster progress on the lift.

Not So

Training the Deadlift, makes you good at Deadlifting. It doesn't insure that you will make faster progress with a Power Clean, any Olympic Pull.

The only way to become proficient at something is to practice it.

Thus, no practice at a Power Clean/Olympic Pulls ensure you'll never learn and become proficient with it.

Kenny Croxdale

[Dag]

Kenny, you should make a version of the power clean that is just like a normal power clean except you do it for high reps and name it after yourself. Crox Cleans.

[Kenny Crox]

mgilchrest,

Chill out.

Kenny Croxdale

[Aaron Montgomery]

Kenny's last two posts aren't in blue, and mgilchrest's is. "Post-confusion" :P