Strong Enough?

[John Hanley]

6-months worth of focused training is probably enough for basic wellness.

[crookedfinger]

Yeah, it's full of (generally) like minded people that want to improve themselves through strength training. This is a good thing.

I see what you did there.

No one's trying to answer your question because your question doesn't make any sense. What, you think there's some point at which you can just stop?

Not stop, Maintain. Which is a wholly viable option for many depending upon their circumstances and outlook. My mom is 64, she pulls somewhere in the neighborhood of 265 for 5. We are not really concerned about her hitting 400. If she can add weight to the bar, great. At this point, we are content if she can maintain.

It would be literally impossible to derive a quantitative standard for how much strength is "enough," given not only differences in age, gender, hormones, genes, disability, and a hundred other factors, but also differences in what each individual will consider satisfactory. Given that everyone has different ideas about what constitutes wellness, functionality, attractiveness, etc., you cannot assure people that they will be content with their results in those areas once they can lift X amount of weight.

Hence why I said average adult male and female and, specifically, indicated that I was aware it would be an opinion on averages. I am not concerned with people being content with their results. I am concerned about providing a realistic expectation or metric to people about what constitutes "strong enough." We are quite content to tout barbell training and strength as a means to better health and well being, but seem to get all wishy washy and hesitant to provide metrics for what would constitute a strength level that is indicative of good health and well being.

[John Hanley]

We don't know what the standard deviation is on the strength bell curve for a trained population. But it's a big.

How can we possibly give metrics? They'd be bullshit without data. Even with comprehensive data a recommendation for "strong enough" woud be silly (squat 385 +/- 100).

Past "intermediate" there's definitely an inflection on the graph of imaginary wellness points, though. "Get through intermediate" is my default recommendation.

[Barbecue]

Okay, as a former defense contractor I am fully qualified to pull numbers out of my ass, so:

Bench bodyweight
deadlift 2 X bodyweight
run a mile in ten minutes
something about sit ups or kettle bells or whatever.




Or accept that it's an ongoing process that isn't all that quantifiable. Getting off the couch is better than dying on it.

[LizF]

Hence why I said average adult male and female and, specifically, indicated that I was aware it would be an opinion on averages. I am not concerned with people being content with their results. I am concerned about providing a realistic expectation or metric to people about what constitutes "strong enough." We are quite content to tout barbell training and strength as a means to better health and well being, but seem to get all wishy washy and hesitant to provide metrics for what would constitute a strength level that is indicative of good health and well being.

Quantify "well-being." Quantify "good health." Quantify "average adult male and female."

[I_iz_a_fatass]

But we are the exception to the rule.

The commonality on the boards is we all lift heavy things. There's nothing exceptional about this, other than it is an uncommon pursuit in this era.

[Adam Skillin]

I'll be delighted if my 65 year old father (who weighs between 185 and 200) ever gets strong enough that he can squat his bodyweight and press 100 pounds overhead. I have to say I think that will confer the majority of the advantages for general health and longevity, and via the pulling-numbers-out-of-my-own-ass method, I've determined that returns start to really diminish after that point for his situation (retired guy, just wants to continue maintaining his own yard, bodysurfing, looking for sea glass, chasing durn kids off his lawn, getting up and down stairs and on and off the toilet unaided, etc).

It's a matter of perspective. If I don't squat 440 x 1 and 405 x 5 (and get my weight up to a lean 165 lbs) before I turn 35, I'll honestly be disappointed. It's a highly individual and subjective calculation, and there are no hard black and white lines.

How much money is enough? I'd quit my day job if I had $1,000,000 in the bank. I would invest every dime of it in long-term municipal bonds to make just enough tax-free money to support my most basic needs, and have more time to do things I enjoy, including those that I can make a little bit of money at (coaching lifting and jiu jitsu, maybe a weeknight bartending shift or two, maybe get into some kind of woodwork) and those that I can't (very low budget travel, hiking, sitting on the beach, reading the SS Forums). I'd still drive my 2005 Civic into the ground. I'd still keep the heat on 55 degrees all winter. I'd still live in a 660 square foot condominium. Most people I know would say that's not enough, but it truly is for me. The calculus is simply different for everyone.

[crookedfinger]

6-months worth of focused training is probably enough for basic wellness.

We don't know what the standard deviation is on the strength bell curve for a trained population. But it's a big.

How can we possibly give metrics? They'd be bullshit without data. Even with comprehensive data a recommendation for "strong enough" woud be silly (squat 385 +/- 100).

Past "intermediate" there's definitely an inflection on the graph of imaginary wellness points, though. "Get through intermediate" is my default recommendation.

I'll be delighted if my 65 year old father (who weighs between 185 and 200) ever gets strong enough that he can squat his bodyweight and press 100 pounds overhead. I have to say I think that will confer the majority of the advantages for general health and longevity, and via the pulling-numbers-out-of-my-own-ass method, I've determined that returns start to really diminish after that point for his situation (retired guy, just wants to continue maintaining his own yard, bodysurfing, looking for sea glass, chasing durn kids off his lawn, getting up and down stairs and on and off the toilet unaided, etc).

Thank you gentlemen for the responses.

[crookedfinger]

...via the pulling-numbers-out-of-my-own-ass method, I've determined that returns start to really diminish after that point for his situation (retired guy, just wants to continue maintaining his own yard, bodysurfing, looking for sea glass, chasing durn kids off his lawn, getting up and down stairs and on and off the toilet unaided, etc)

One other thing in regards to this response. It's not really pulling numbers out of your ass, in that your opinion is based upon a level of experience. It is an informed opinion. This is all I was really looking for: an experienced-based opinion -- not a scientific study. I fully recognize that it would be naive of me to expect anything else. So sincerest thanks again to you and Coach Hanley for being willing to share your opinion.

[crookedfinger]

Quantify "well-being." Quantify "good health." Quantify "average adult male and female."

Are you being serious or just attempting to be difficult? Either way, I can't help you