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Thread: Consistent lower back injury

  1. #1
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    Default Consistent lower back injury

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    For some reason I seem to throw my back out when I get my squat between 315-340lb for a working set/sets, regardless of weight gain.

    The way it happens is: I squat 315-340lb for several sets of 3-5 reps and feel very good.
    The next several days to a week, my lower back feels fatigued, and if I try to add weight or even squat within 10-15lbs of my working weight, I throw my back out and end up out of the gym for at least 2 weeks. This has happened at least 4 or 5 times in the last 2 years.

    I have since learned to do lighter squats for however many squat sessions I feel the lower back fatigue. This results in my squat going down by around 15-25lbs because of the relatively light weight compared to the sets in the 300s, which keeps my squat artificially low, between 260-300lb for work sets.

    Reference information:
    6'3/27/215lb
    Previously herniated a disc in low back (i believe)
    History of sciatica / low back pain
    Began Starting Strength to remedy the intense lower back pain/sciatica I would get after injuring my back
    Best squat: 370lb x 1 (3 years ago)

    Have you encountered this before? What is the best course of action?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Everett, WA
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    470

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebla5t View Post
    For some reason I seem to throw my back out when I get my squat between 315-340lb for a working set/sets, regardless of weight gain.

    The way it happens is: I squat 315-340lb for several sets of 3-5 reps and feel very good.
    The next several days to a week, my lower back feels fatigued, and if I try to add weight or even squat within 10-15lbs of my working weight, I throw my back out and end up out of the gym for at least 2 weeks. This has happened at least 4 or 5 times in the last 2 years.

    I have since learned to do lighter squats for however many squat sessions I feel the lower back fatigue. This results in my squat going down by around 15-25lbs because of the relatively light weight compared to the sets in the 300s, which keeps my squat artificially low, between 260-300lb for work sets.

    Reference information:
    6'3/27/215lb
    Previously herniated a disc in low back (i believe)
    History of sciatica / low back pain
    Began Starting Strength to remedy the intense lower back pain/sciatica I would get after injuring my back
    Best squat: 370lb x 1 (3 years ago)

    Have you encountered this before? What is the best course of action?

    I did early in the program when I was making too big of jumps in both squat and DL. When I slowed the jumps down that helped and since I'm 58 I cut back to twice a week. I've gone almost a year now without injury. Do I have aches and pains here and there yes but no injuries. I'm not an expert at any of this but wondering how is your DL going? Are you using a belt? I don't use a belt during warm ups but I do use one for the work sets.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    Lansing, MI
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    I have a great deal of experience with this. It is not fun. I would suggest getting a MRI as soon as humanly possible to get a clear understanding of what you are dealing with. Especially if the pain is constantly reoccurring.

    If, when you get a diagnosis than you can start looking more seriously at controlling training variables. There can be many, many factors at play, but in no particular order I would suggest taking a good inventory of your recovery (sleeping situation, additional stress both physically and mentally from outside the gym factors, and eating) Also, I would be curious to know if you are performing the lifts correctly. It would be a good idea to post a form check video in the Staff Coaches forum.

    Programming is also a very big deal and in almost every case I have dealt with this sort of thing some part of the programming process was being messed up. You need to pay close attention to rest between sets, working in light days, and recovering between workouts.

    In my experience the lifts when done properly and overloaded intelligently they rarely cause issues. Typically bad things occur when the lifts are done wrong or when form goes to crap with too much weight on the bar. Also, I would avoid any running, met-con training, sit ups, leg lifts, and anything outside of the basic lifts. Basically, avoid anything that makes it difficult to keep back locked into extension. A belt and good form on the big lifts is the key.

    The best thing I ever did was attend a seminar. If you haven't done that you should make it a priority. And if your back keeps hurting get it looked at by someone who knows what they are talking about. Be wary of anyone who just tells you to take pain killers and avoid lifting weights.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Wear a belt. Increase in smaller increments (I reran my LP 2.5lbs each workout on the squat after a back injury). And get coached to make sure you aren't causing your own problems with poor form.

  5. #5
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    May 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveL View Post
    I did early in the program when I was making too big of jumps in both squat and DL. When I slowed the jumps down that helped and since I'm 58 I cut back to twice a week. I've gone almost a year now without injury. Do I have aches and pains here and there yes but no injuries. I'm not an expert at any of this but wondering how is your DL going? Are you using a belt? I don't use a belt during warm ups but I do use one for the work sets.
    My deadlift moves up just fine (odd, since that was how I badly re-injured my back in the first place): I got to up around 445x1 (385x5 IIRC) a few times since.

    I do wear a belt for my squat and deadlift. For squat, I belt up after 245lb, and for deadlift I belt up after 260lb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Kurisko View Post
    I have a great deal of experience with this. It is not fun. I would suggest getting a MRI as soon as humanly possible to get a clear understanding of what you are dealing with. Especially if the pain is constantly reoccurring.

    If, when you get a diagnosis than you can start looking more seriously at controlling training variables. There can be many, many factors at play, but in no particular order I would suggest taking a good inventory of your recovery (sleeping situation, additional stress both physically and mentally from outside the gym factors, and eating) Also, I would be curious to know if you are performing the lifts correctly. It would be a good idea to post a form check video in the Staff Coaches forum.

    Programming is also a very big deal and in almost every case I have dealt with this sort of thing some part of the programming process was being messed up. You need to pay close attention to rest between sets, working in light days, and recovering between workouts.

    In my experience the lifts when done properly and overloaded intelligently they rarely cause issues. Typically bad things occur when the lifts are done wrong or when form goes to crap with too much weight on the bar. Also, I would avoid any running, met-con training, sit ups, leg lifts, and anything outside of the basic lifts. Basically, avoid anything that makes it difficult to keep back locked into extension. A belt and good form on the big lifts is the key.

    The best thing I ever did was attend a seminar. If you haven't done that you should make it a priority. And if your back keeps hurting get it looked at by someone who knows what they are talking about. Be wary of anyone who just tells you to take pain killers and avoid lifting weights.
    That sounds like a good idea-- I have an appointment with my GP in a few days, I'll see if I can get an MRI scheduled.

    My recovery is generally fine, though mental stress is certainly an issue. These lower back injuries have happened while gaining weight and losing weight. Once I get my squat back up around the 300s, I'll record a few videos and get some input (been out of the gym with bronchitis).

    Quote Originally Posted by Clay Simczyk View Post
    Wear a belt. Increase in smaller increments (I reran my LP 2.5lbs each workout on the squat after a back injury). And get coached to make sure you aren't causing your own problems with poor form.
    I've tried 5lb increments; everything goes extremely well until I get in the low-to-mid 3s and then my lower back just becomes incredibly fatigued for an extended period of time.

    For example: I worked up to 310lbx5x3sets which was easy, and the next heavy session (5 days later) would've been 315x5x3. My lower back felt extremely fatigued but I figured it was just a fluke and I would be fine to hit 315x5x3. At my last warmup, a single at 295lb, I had a lightning strike of pain run down my back through my leg. I was out for 2-3 weeks.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebla5t View Post
    My deadlift moves up just fine (odd, since that was how I badly re-injured my back in the first place): I got to up around 445x1 (385x5 IIRC) a few times since.

    I do wear a belt for my squat and deadlift. For squat, I belt up after 245lb, and for deadlift I belt up after 260lb.



    That sounds like a good idea-- I have an appointment with my GP in a few days, I'll see if I can get an MRI scheduled.

    My recovery is generally fine, though mental stress is certainly an issue. These lower back injuries have happened while gaining weight and losing weight. Once I get my squat back up around the 300s, I'll record a few videos and get some input (been out of the gym with bronchitis).



    I've tried 5lb increments; everything goes extremely well until I get in the low-to-mid 3s and then my lower back just becomes incredibly fatigued for an extended period of time.

    For example: I worked up to 310lbx5x3sets which was easy, and the next heavy session (5 days later) would've been 315x5x3. My lower back felt extremely fatigued but I figured it was just a fluke and I would be fine to hit 315x5x3. At my last warmup, a single at 295lb, I had a lightning strike of pain run down my back through my leg. I was out for 2-3 weeks.
    This would not be an appropriate use of MRI.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Morris View Post
    This would not be an appropriate use of MRI.
    O_O

  8. #8
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    The MRI is an expensive way of telling you something you already know. You have a bad back. So do I. So does everybody.

  9. #9
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    Have you listened to podcast 8? I tweaked my back about 2 weeks into LP. I ended up taking it easy for a week and significantly de-laoding my deadlift. I then worked up and switched to 5lb jumps when I got close to my previous PR. The podcast will at least give you an idea of whether it might be a muscle/tendon vs disc issue. If it is a muscle/tendon issue, I'm not sure there is anything that can be done other than to keep training. Probably would be a waste of time and money seeing a doctor. In the case of the disc issue, probably similar, but requires a little more care.

    Also, if it is a severe muscle pull, you could consider the Starr Rehab protocol.

  10. #10
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by thebla5t View Post
    O_O
    Shocking, huh? Explain to me why this particular situation would merit advanced imaging with magnetic resonance.

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