Keep experiencing some kind of detraining effect on SS. Need help/tips.

[manis5]

So I've been on SS for about 6 months now and every 6 weeks or so I have a period of continued,uninterrupted progression that will feel almost like I'm "peaking" then I will reach a heavy enough weight where I begin to miss a few reps on the last two sets, nothing unusual about this yet. Typically my plan for my following workout is to just try the same weight again and see if I can get all 3 sets for 5. Now here's where I'm getting confused.

Not only will I not get all 3 sets for 5, but it feels like I can barely even hit my last warm up for 3x5 if I had to. The weight will just feel obscenely heavy, way more than it should. Aside from just feeling heavy, I will feel oddly detrained almost as if I am a total beginner again and the motor patterns of the movements feel foreign to me. This has happened to me several times now namely when the weight reached 185, 210, and now 230 on the squat. In the past I've just deloaded as described in PPST3 and continued on from there, but this is starting to get on my nerves now and I'm starting to wonder if I am doing something wrong.

This happened to me again tonight and I'm contemplating if I should deload and ramp back up again as I've done in the past or if I should try again and see what happens on Wednesday despite the fact I decided to only hit my warm ups for 3x3 tonight since I felt so horrible. Any advice is appreciated.

[Kyle Schuant]

Size now?

Numbers for all lifts?

Food?

Sleep?

[manis5]

~178 @ 5'11 (yes I know I need to gain and have been doing so steadily for the past month)

Squat-225x5x3, Bench-160x5x3, Deadlift-250x5x1, Press-92x5x3, PC 89x3x5 (just started learning these so weight is still considerably light)

Like I said above, my weight has been steadily increasing over the past month and my nutrition has been on par but over the weekend I wasn't able to eat as much as I normally would due to being busy. From Fri-Sun I was probably consuming something like 2800-3000 cals rather than my usual 3500-4000 cals.

Sleep is usually pretty good for the most part but probably my biggest factor when it comes to feeling good in training. I can usually pull off a good workout on little food but if my sleep is off I'm usually done for. My sleep over this weekend was pretty decent, nothing out of the ordinary but I think what slowed me down a bit was that I was doing a lot of sitting around over the weekend. I usually do some stretching and what not on my off days but I didn't get a chance to do any of it over the weekend. There's been periods where I ate and slept like crap and still managed to have a good training session but other times like now where my eating and sleeping is decent but I can hardly get through my warm ups.

Also I should mention that last Friday was the most grueling workout of my life. I missed reps on both the squat and press and felt absolutely drained by the end of it. The gym was humid as hell too which didn't help. I had no energy over the weekend due to Friday's workout and was pretty lazy the whole weekend.

[K.O.]

How often are you deadlifting? We have similar stats as to where we're at and deadlifting every workout began to be a burn. It looks like symptoms of overtraining. I've now switched to alternating DL/PC with back extensions and chins. Just started with this schedule a week ago and with the added rest, I feel a lot better. That's just my experience so far, I'm 3 months in.

[manis5]

How often are you deadlifting? We have similar stats as to where we're at and deadlifting every workout began to be a burn. It looks like symptoms of overtraining. I've now switched to alternating DL/PC with back extensions and chins. Just started with this schedule a week ago and with the added rest, I feel a lot better. That's just my experience so far, I'm 3 months in.

I set up my plan so that I'm deadlifting only 1x a week (on wednesdays) and doing power cleans 2x a week. This is for 2 reasons. One being for the reason you stated and the other is because I needed more exposure to the power clean so I can learn it better. On paper my recovery shouldn't be a problem but you're right it does sound like some kind of overtraining is going on.

[Kyle Schuant]

my nutrition has been on par but over the weekend I wasn't able to eat as much as I normally would due to being busy.

And there you have your answer.

When I write workout journals for my clients, I have under each day a smiley face, a Y and a Z, for mood, food and sleep. Usually one of these three is poor and the others okay or good, if two or more of them are poor then we won't be able to add weight to the bar today, and just doing the normal weights will be a struggle. If all three are poor... well, they usually don't show up. If all three are okay to good, things will feel easy today, these are the days you're tempted to max out (but still shouldn't). I mark down if any of the three are particularly good or bad that day, and then weeks or months later the numbers make more sense.

Obviously you should try to improve your nutrition and rest. But accommodating imperfection is sometimes necessary, which means slower progress - but progress is progress.

I would probably introduce a light day for your squats first up, try that for 6 weeks and see if it helps. You mention the lifts feeling heavy and awkward, but only talk about squat numbers going up and down, let's face it, it's the heavy squats that take it out of you. There are other ways we can reduce the overall load, as you've done by DL once a week and PC twice (which I think is sensible), but the main thing would be a light squat day.

If after 6 weeks that's not helped, I wrote a whole article on this website about progress for people who have other shit in their lives, the progress is slower than for things like Texas Method, but progress is progress.

[manis5]

And there you have your answer.

When I write workout journals for my clients, I have under each day a smiley face, a Y and a Z, for mood, food and sleep. Usually one of these three is poor and the others okay or good, if two or more of them are poor then we won't be able to add weight to the bar today, and just doing the normal weights will be a struggle. If all three are poor... well, they usually don't show up. If all three are okay to good, things will feel easy today, these are the days you're tempted to max out (but still shouldn't). I mark down if any of the three are particularly good or bad that day, and then weeks or months later the numbers make more sense.

Obviously you should try to improve your nutrition and rest. But accommodating imperfection is sometimes necessary, which means slower progress - but progress is progress.

I would probably introduce a light day for your squats first up, try that for 6 weeks and see if it helps. You mention the lifts feeling heavy and awkward, but only talk about squat numbers going up and down, let's face it, it's the heavy squats that take it out of you. There are other ways we can reduce the overall load, as you've done by DL once a week and PC twice (which I think is sensible), but the main thing would be a light squat day.

If after 6 weeks that's not helped, I wrote a whole article on this website about progress for people who have other shit in their lives, the progress is slower than for things like Texas Method, but progress is progress.

Thanks a lot for the reply. I understand that if sleep or some other aspect of recovery is compromised that the training session will feel crappy but is it normal to literally lose up to 25lbs on the squat work sets? Like I said my weekend wasn't optimal for recovery but not bad by any means. I feel like if I ever missed a week of training sessions due to work or illness, I would lose like 50 % of my progress and have to start over again. My strength seems really fleeting unless I am overbearingly on top of it all the time.

I've actually went ahead and introduced the light squat day into the routine for about the past 2 weeks so that on Wednesdays I am squatting light and deadlifting my usual 1 heavy set of 5. I felt like it was still early in my progression to add the light squat day in but it got to a point where it seemed like I really had no choice if I wanted to continue making progress. I think I will squat light next session but based on the percentage of 80% of 230 and try to keep the rest of my lifts the same for the day. Not sure how Friday's squat session will feel though if I try 230 again.

[Kyle Schuant]

Unless someone's had the flu or something, no, losing 25lbs is not normal. But I don't think you lost 25lbs on your squat. Note, you did not tell us, "I went down and didn't come up", you said that it felt heavy and awkward. So you're not failing, you're not trying.

There might be some drama in your personal life, I dunno. Nobody will set PRs the day before their final exam or wedding or after their girlfriend ditched them. This shit is hard, it takes a full effort and with other stuff in your life not too dramatic. But it's also therapeutic, in a world of shit we can't control, we can control the barbell - if we choose to.

I suspect that of the 25lbs you claim to lose on the bar, about 10lbs is physical, and about 15lbs is mental. I see this all the time. At some point it gets hard, for young guys this seems to be a bit over bodyweight for squats. This is a weight wherever whatever your strength, it's physically difficult to control the bar. It's like if you have an engine block hanging off a chain in a garage, you don't have to lift the thing, but it's still hard to control as you move it back and forth along the chain's railing. So 225 is always going to feel heavy even if you can squat 405.

Most guys training on their own who actually keep squatting go through endless cycles where they bounce back and forth between something like 135 and 225. I've done it myself, we all have, we've all found excuses not to follow the plan.

You come in, you do 185. As soon as you get it on your back it feels heavy. You do 4 reps, and the 5th is that grindy one that gets stuck halfway up. Second set, the last 2 are grindy. Third set, the last 3 are grindy. You go home. Next time you come in, "Well, the rule is if I do 3 sets of 5 reps, I add 5lbs... so it would be 190... but 185 was so grindy and hard... this will be worse..." And then you start making excuses. "Well okay I did the reps, but they weren't good reps... and I'm a bit tired today... I missed breakfast.... and I've got this little twinge in my back... look, I'll just do 135 today, see how I feel next time." Of course, having done 135 this time, 190 seems even scarier next time. "Well I'll build up from 135 again."

With a coach or training partner, or a person determined enough to follow the plan, this doesn't happen.
"But they weren't good reps."
"They were good enough. Get under the bar."
"But I'm a bit tired."
"You'll live. Get under the bar."
"I didn't have breakfast."
"You should have had breakfast. Get under the bar."
"And I've got this little twinge here..."
"Do you need to go to the doctor?"
"No."
"Then get under the bar."
So you get under the bar, and do it, and it's not so bad.

It's alright to fail, it's not alright to give up.

Don't make up your own programme by feel, you'll end up just spinning your wheels from 135 to 225 like I described above. Get a programme from a coach to accommodate all this shit going on, and remember that progress is progress.

[ud2o]

Unless someone's had the flu or something, no, losing 25lbs is not normal. But I don't think you lost 25lbs on your squat. Note, you did not tell us, "I went down and didn't come up", you said that it felt heavy and awkward. So you're not failing, you're not trying.

There might be some drama in your personal life, I dunno. Nobody will set PRs the day before their final exam or wedding or after their girlfriend ditched them. This shit is hard, it takes a full effort and with other stuff in your life not too dramatic. But it's also therapeutic, in a world of shit we can't control, we can control the barbell - if we choose to.

I suspect that of the 25lbs you claim to lose on the bar, about 10lbs is physical, and about 15lbs is mental. I see this all the time. At some point it gets hard, for young guys this seems to be a bit over bodyweight for squats. This is a weight wherever whatever your strength, it's physically difficult to control the bar. It's like if you have an engine block hanging off a chain in a garage, you don't have to lift the thing, but it's still hard to control as you move it back and forth along the chain's railing. So 225 is always going to feel heavy even if you can squat 405.

Most guys training on their own who actually keep squatting go through endless cycles where they bounce back and forth between something like 135 and 225. I've done it myself, we all have, we've all found excuses not to follow the plan.

You come in, you do 185. As soon as you get it on your back it feels heavy. You do 4 reps, and the 5th is that grindy one that gets stuck halfway up. Second set, the last 2 are grindy. Third set, the last 3 are grindy. You go home. Next time you come in, "Well, the rule is if I do 3 sets of 5 reps, I add 5lbs... so it would be 190... but 185 was so grindy and hard... this will be worse..." And then you start making excuses. "Well okay I did the reps, but they weren't good reps... and I'm a bit tired today... I missed breakfast.... and I've got this little twinge in my back... look, I'll just do 135 today, see how I feel next time." Of course, having done 135 this time, 190 seems even scarier next time. "Well I'll build up from 135 again."

With a coach or training partner, or a person determined enough to follow the plan, this doesn't happen.
"But they weren't good reps."
"They were good enough. Get under the bar."
"But I'm a bit tired."
"You'll live. Get under the bar."
"I didn't have breakfast."
"You should have had breakfast. Get under the bar."
"And I've got this little twinge here..."
"Do you need to go to the doctor?"
"No."
"Then get under the bar."
So you get under the bar, and do it, and it's not so bad.

It's alright to fail, it's not alright to give up.

Don't make up your own programme by feel, you'll end up just spinning your wheels from 135 to 225 like I described above. Get a programme from a coach to accommodate all this shit going on, and remember that progress is progress.

I wish I had written this.

Instead, I'll settle for applying it. Thank you sir.

[manis5]

Unless someone's had the flu or something, no, losing 25lbs is not normal. But I don't think you lost 25lbs on your squat. Note, you did not tell us, "I went down and didn't come up", you said that it felt heavy and awkward. So you're not failing, you're not trying.

There might be some drama in your personal life, I dunno. Nobody will set PRs the day before their final exam or wedding or after their girlfriend ditched them. This shit is hard, it takes a full effort and with other stuff in your life not too dramatic. But it's also therapeutic, in a world of shit we can't control, we can control the barbell - if we choose to.

I suspect that of the 25lbs you claim to lose on the bar, about 10lbs is physical, and about 15lbs is mental. I see this all the time. At some point it gets hard, for young guys this seems to be a bit over bodyweight for squats. This is a weight wherever whatever your strength, it's physically difficult to control the bar. It's like if you have an engine block hanging off a chain in a garage, you don't have to lift the thing, but it's still hard to control as you move it back and forth along the chain's railing. So 225 is always going to feel heavy even if you can squat 405.

Most guys training on their own who actually keep squatting go through endless cycles where they bounce back and forth between something like 135 and 225. I've done it myself, we all have, we've all found excuses not to follow the plan.

You come in, you do 185. As soon as you get it on your back it feels heavy. You do 4 reps, and the 5th is that grindy one that gets stuck halfway up. Second set, the last 2 are grindy. Third set, the last 3 are grindy. You go home. Next time you come in, "Well, the rule is if I do 3 sets of 5 reps, I add 5lbs... so it would be 190... but 185 was so grindy and hard... this will be worse..." And then you start making excuses. "Well okay I did the reps, but they weren't good reps... and I'm a bit tired today... I missed breakfast.... and I've got this little twinge in my back... look, I'll just do 135 today, see how I feel next time." Of course, having done 135 this time, 190 seems even scarier next time. "Well I'll build up from 135 again."

With a coach or training partner, or a person determined enough to follow the plan, this doesn't happen.
"But they weren't good reps."
"They were good enough. Get under the bar."
"But I'm a bit tired."
"You'll live. Get under the bar."
"I didn't have breakfast."
"You should have had breakfast. Get under the bar."
"And I've got this little twinge here..."
"Do you need to go to the doctor?"
"No."
"Then get under the bar."
So you get under the bar, and do it, and it's not so bad.

It's alright to fail, it's not alright to give up.

Don't make up your own programme by feel, you'll end up just spinning your wheels from 135 to 225 like I described above. Get a programme from a coach to accommodate all this shit going on, and remember that progress is progress.

Very good points. Mental stress is always a major factor for me and one that I always account for when planning my training. I've had it really under control recently though which is why I guess I was a little startled when I hit a wall all of a sudden. Its weird though, it's almost like I can tell when I am about to cross over into, dare I say, "overtraining".

As I described earlier, last Friday's workout was absolutely grueling for me, not because I felt bad going in but because it was just a hard workout by nature. After it was over I was completely spent and pretty much didn't even want to think about training over the weekend. It's like my motivation dropped from 95% to 0 over the span of two days. By the time Monday rolled around it felt like I had never squatted before and to be honest I just didn't want to do the damn set for the life of me. From experience I now know that the motivation always comes back but it's hard to figure out what to do in the meantime when I feel weak both physically and mentally.