first, no i don't have practical programming yet, only SS.
Rip discusses the various assistance exercizes that are useful once linear progression on the primary lifts stall out sufficiently.
He includes tricep extensions and standing barbell curls in there, however reluctantly. At what point do these types of exercizes become necessary? It seems like the advanced novice program stops with Dips, Back Extensions, Chins, and Situps.
I get that curls and extensions are much less useful than chins and dips, which are less useful than squat, bench press, overhead press, and the deadlift. However, he wouldn't have put them in there if they weren't useful in some circumstances or at some point in training.
thoughts? i am going to buy practical programming at some point... i'm just fucking broke right now, so bear with me.
we all covered this assistance stuff pretty good at the past San Diego seminar, Assistance and any special exercise should be added for a reason and not just because you can.
Meaning if it aint broke dont fix it. You add things for a reason when your progress stops long term.
Your training should be and stay as simple as possible and then you add thing to address a specific weakness that the large compounds are not getting. Your aim should be the opposite of the western attitude of if a little is good a ton of shit is great. You should do the minimal stuff it takes to make progress. Usually more crap added leads not to progress in the long term but stagnation
it all depends not on how long youve been doing things but training age which is determined by progress or lack of when religiously following a quality program, not even loads you are using
Phil, it's not long now before you're labeled a "Rippetoe nutswinger." The internet police will be here any moment to put you in your place.
I suggest you read PP2ed. While no program is the end all, it will help you to intuit when you need to add assistance. Basicly, chins can be added after you need a break from pulling every session. Dips can be added as well, but don't overdo these.
Other exercises are added for a reason, you should have a good one.
Last edited by matclone; 03-05-2010 at 04:25 PM.
Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember Rip saying anything about doing tricep extensions in Starting Strength. As for bicep curls, I think his explanation was that people were going to do them anyway, so they might as well know the right way. Conclusion: these exercises aren't necessary unless you think they are--you know, like for BIG ARMS
Agreed, if you don't need it, don't do it. If you're making progress now, there's no reason to add anything. And when you stop making progress, you need to analyze all the possible reasons why, not just add in more exercises.
Originally Posted by Phil Stevens
lying triceps extension is discussed somewhat indirectly on pages 208 and 281 of SS.
Originally Posted by matclone
Thanks for the references. To answer your question, I don't thnk the curl or lying triceps extension ever becomes necessary unless you find a specific purpose for them, e.g., the triceps extension because you're competing in the bench press. Based on the pages you reference, obviously Rip doesn't think they are totally useless exercises, but, then, as you mention, there are more useful exercises for general strength.
I think the curl is a reasonable exercise. I, as well as several other lifters I've known, had pain in the biceps, where the tendon inserts into the shoulder. Curls have helped each of us strengthen the biceps and reduce the pain. The cheat curl is also a decent power production exercise. Obviously the clean is better for that, but in a institutional setting like high school football, working with dozens of lifters at a time, you probably don't have the time to teach every kid to clean decently, whereas the cheat curl takes about 4 seconds to teach. Obviously most gym goers overdo the curls, but doing 3 sets of 10 once a week isn't at all out of line.