adjusting to using lifting shoes

[tweakxc03]

Rip:

I've forum-searched and google-searched the hell out of this, FYI. I posted this in the training forum earlier and got a mixed bag of opinions that weren't much help.

First workout with your lifting shoes and a belt: (previously in Vibrams)

The squats felt a lot better, but on video my form broke down a lot more. Knees are caving in substantially on the way up now, even though I am focusing on keeping the knees out. I did 2 reps better on the last set than my last workout (x5, x5, x4).

The deadlifts went completely to shit. Last week I did 305 without much problem. Yesterday I couldn't even get 295 off the ground. Your previous posts indicate that it is almost always a technique issue in the setup with proper bar placement over the middle of the foot, as most anyone should benefit from a little bit of a heel in deadlifting and squatting.

In another post, you indicate that in rare cases, anthropometry of long femurs and short tibias could make deadlifting better barefooted rather than with a heel. I have stupidly long femurs. I don't know if I qualify for "short tibias." My guess is it's technique.

So,

1. It was suggested that this could be just due to a change in motor recruitment patterns from the added heel. Does this make sense?

2. How does the "middle of the foot" concept throw people off when moving from no heel to a heel? I am keeping the bar placement the same as flat-footed at present.

I'm considering a minor reset to adjust to the new setup.

[Mark Rippetoe]

1. Perhaps, but most people have no trouble with the transition from no-support to support.

2. It doesn't, unless the heel is too tall. We have talked about that a lot.

[hatmanii]

I had some trouble adjusting to deadlifting in my do-wins when I first took a crack at it. I have to hit a different 'groove' when deadlifting in them, and it took a few changes in my stance to get it right. Oddly, I had to widen my stance considerably, but it feels much stronger in comparison to deadlifting in chucks or barefoot.

[elVarouza]

When I first started using weightlifting shoes I came up on my toes maybe one rep of each set of squats the first workout. Next workout I came up on my toes maybe once the entire time, and every time since then it's been fine. If you've only used them once you probably shouldn't be freaking out about anything.

About the deadlift it's probably not just the elevated heel that's throwing you off but also the extra height of the sole itself. My deadlifts felt weird at first but I was able to pull a PR in them the first time I tried.

[JLascek]

Most people feel instantly better with the addition of proper footwear.

[Ninja Monk]

Weird, from my first workout with 'proper' shoes (the lower heeled do wins) it just felt like that was how things were meant to be... no problems at all.

[Mark Rippetoe]

It could be due to variations in anthropometry. Or tweak may just be a bonehead.

[Tom Chase]

I posted this question to Rip a while back about having problems with my shoes.

http://www.startingstrength.com/reso...ad.php?t=13882

I ended up having to take a moderate layoff from training, but when I came back I dumped my Adidas with a 1" heel and tried the 3/4" heeled Do-wins. I don't know if it's the shorter heel or maybe I just finally un-fucked my form but everything is going much better after a very short adjustment period. I wouldn't even consider lifting without them now. I even wear them when I bench. Gives me some good leg drive!

[tweakxc03]

I squatted again the other day at a lighter load. Knees were better, but still a little bit of an issue.

I think it had nothing to do with the shoes and more to do with my body being fried from accumulated fatigue of the past couple of weeks of not enough food, little sleep, and very high levels of stress.

... + i might be a bonehead... i am certainly a tall, lanky, goofy mother fucker:

Before shoes:
240 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwa8C_seFZE
245 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzwECWI1ONk

With shoes:
245 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH_kR0tAUvQ
225 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-56rLQat6o