Nutrition advice on this board

[Eanderson]

I see that Mr. Sheaffer, your nutrition expert, espouses a lot of the old bodybuilding dogma. Examples are separating carbs and fats in the same meal, eating many small meals for some sort of metabolism effect, etc. He also dismissed intermittent fasting without providing an explanation (admittedly, IF has very little good research on it at the moment).

This, combined with his refusal to discuss research being performed in his field has made me skeptical of his motivations.

Care to comment?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Sure. What is your evidence for your position? Why is he wrong? I see nothing here except the fact that you appear to be offended by the fact that John and I do not like the current shitty state of the literature.

[Eanderson]

I think you misunderstand me, Mark. I am not an expert, and I failed at getting Mr. Sheaffer to explain his feelings on carbs/fat combining here:

http://startingstrength.com/resource...t=texas&page=2

After his post, I tried in vain to find where he had already explained it.

To answer your questions:

I have no evidence of my own, but the people you previously referred us to for nutritional info have presented extensive arguments against these practices, using evidence mostly from studies (I realize you don't think these studies are valid).

I don't know that he is wrong, but without any explanation from him I don't know that he is right.

[Mark Rippetoe]

It seems that you take issue with this: Separate your carbs and fats. In each meal, you will have a portion of protein in addition to either carbs or fats, but not both. In the earlier half of the day, your meals should be Protein + Carb (P/C) in order to fill your muscle glycogen stores for your athletic activities. Later in the day (afternoon to evening, depending on your individual metabolism), when you are more sedentary, your meals should be Protein + Fat (P/F). Since carbs produce an insulin response, removing the carbs at this time will decrease the likelihood that you will store your excess calories as fat. Your final meal of the day should be *only* protein. Also, your PWO meal, regardless of what time of the day it is, must be a P/C meal.

What about this do you not like? The fact that John has had good success with it for his clients despite the fact that there are no studies, or the fact that previously relied-upon persons do not agree?

[Eanderson]

I think Alan has summed up the counter-argument nicely here:

http://startingstrength.com/resource...393#post137393

[Mark Rippetoe]

That is devastating, I admit. I have an idea: let's just call the "evening" meal the one you have before you go to bed, since the effect of the carbs on you during sleep is our primary concern. And if you train shortly before you go to bed, like I often do, you just eat a few carbs with that meal and don't worry about it so much. This is not of primary concern to most people on either this forum or John's, since we are not bodybuilders looking for the way to Razor Abs. And I'm pretty sure he has explained this before.

[Wayne Riddle]

Ain't hard to understand. John posted what works for him and his clients. Not like he is beating you over the head with a barbell saying you have to do the exact same thing. If you have a different diet plan that works for you then run with it.

[Alan Aragon]

the effect of the carbs on you during sleep is our primary concern.

Hello Mark,

Can you please elaborate on the above? Thanks.

[Mark Rippetoe]

No, I can't. This is not a nutrition board, I am not a nutritionist, I am not particularly interested in this, and any opinion I have on the matter is irrelevant. I am obviously referring to the effect of insulin on fat storage while asleep, and John's experience with this, as well as my own, is that it has a positive effect on body composition. But neither John nor myself is interested in this question as the beginning of an argument. The info is posted here for your use. Use it as you see fit.

[Alan Aragon]

No, I can't. This is not a nutrition board, I am not a nutritionist, I am not particularly interested in this, and any opinion I have on the matter is irrelevant. I am obviously referring to the effect of insulin on fat storage while asleep, and John's experience with this, as well as my own, is that it has a positive effect on body composition. But neither John nor myself is interested in this question as the beginning of an argument. The info is posted here for your use. Use it as you see fit.

It's apparent to me that you're not interested in defending the brotastic dogma that "carbs are more fattening at night." That's fine. If John happens to see this thread, then I'd be happy to discuss it with him - if he wants to. If not, that fine too.