How Do I unstuck myself by adding calories. Deload? If so, how much? Odd rep numbers.

[JayvH]

Well I tried to put as much of my information in the title like I could. I stuck myself in a 90kg (~200lbs) squat. I am 1,78m of height (~5ft 8' I think) an weigh 74 to 75kg (~164 lbs). I came from a sickness back to my old 82,5kg x 5 x3 squat using muscle memory and about 2500 kcal and got stuck. So I added 500 to 800 kcal and came up to 87,5 kg although this needed very hard effort and for 85 kg I needed three workouts, for 87,5 kg I needed two workouts. 90 kg wouldn't fall in three workouts so I guess I have to increase the food intake.

But how should I do this. Add just 500 kcal to get in the 3500 to 4000 kcal area and try 90 kg again or should I deload 10% (or even 20%) and work backup using 2,5 kg increments?

I don't know if this is important but my reps faded out like nothing I expected. I thought of getting slower like maybe failing with 5/5/4 or 5/5/3 in the first workout, but it looked like this. Which makes me think if calories are the only problem?

Week 1
Monday:
82,5 kg 5 reps x 3 sets

Wednesday:
85 kg x 5 x 2
85 kg x 1 x 1

Friday:
85 kg x 2 x 1
80 kg x 3 x 1 (cause I didn't feel a third set of 85 kg would help)

Week 2
Monday:
85 kg x 5 x 3

Wednesday:
87,5 kg x 3 x 1
87,5 kg x 1 x 2
70 kg x 8 x 1 (Backoff set)

Friday:
87,5 kg x 5 x 3

Week 3
Monday:
90 kg x 3 x 1
90 kg x 1 x 2

Wednesday:
90 kg x 2 x 1
90 kg x 1 x 2
70 kg x 8 x 2 (Backoff sets)

Friday:
90 kg x 3 x 1
90 kg x 2 x 1
90 kg x 4 x 1

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

How much are sleeping and what do your weekends look like, what do you do?

[JayvH]

I try to get eight hours of sleep, which is mostly between 11 PM and 7 AM in the week. On the weekends it's maybe more like Midnight till 9 or 10 o'clock. I'm no big party guy and don't get wasted. Last night I only got 6 hours of sleep but I try my best to make nights like the to exceptional cases. Lately I sacrficed one of my free days of the weekend to work on my dissertation but's that's a desk job and shouldn't interfere with my regeneration.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

What about your other lifts; deadlift, PC, Press and bench. DO you wake up with an alarm or do you get out of bed on your own? Whats your diet look like?

[Steve Hill]

IF you stalled that quickly, then quite simply you A) Started the program at too high a weight, and b) from your posted calorie count, you were not eating enough, right from the beginning.

You can't just eat "extra" when you stall - you have to eat a large amount of calories, all the time, because a stall is indictatory of you not recovering sufficiently from the previous workouts. Therefore, you were not eating enough BEFORE YOU STALLED. Is this not obvious?

So, a couple of questions follow:

How old are you? You have over 100 posts on this board, surely you've seen that this is standard information.

How much milk are you drinking?

You realize that your didn't get stuck at 90 kg, right? YOU STUCK AT 85 KILOS. It's right there in what you typed.

Have you read the programming section of SS:BBT? I ask this because after you failed in your second attempt to get 85kgx5x3, what should you have done?

You mention that you are coming back from sickness? What was this illness? Was it debilitating? Did you have cancer? Did you have a leg amputated for gangrene?

What were your PRs prior to the illness?

And for doG's sake, why on earth do you only weigh 164 pounds? YOU NEED TO FUCKING EAT.

[JayvH]

IF you stalled that quickly, then quite simply you A) Started the program at too high a weight, and b) from your posted calorie count, you were not eating enough, right from the beginning.

You can't just eat "extra" when you stall - you have to eat a large amount of calories, all the time, because a stall is indictatory of you not recovering sufficiently from the previous workouts. Therefore, you were not eating enough BEFORE YOU STALLED. Is this not obvious?

Well, I never thought of recovering of the last workouts, only of the last workout. Something like "This worked well, so let's don't change anything."

So, a couple of questions follow:

How old are you? You have over 100 posts on this board, surely you've seen that this is standard information.

Sorry, I am 30 years old.

How much milk are you drinking?

2,5 liters per day,this would be the first thing to increase the calories.

You realize that your didn't get stuck at 90 kg, right? YOU STUCK AT 85 KILOS. It's right there in what you typed.

Have you read the programming section of SS:BBT? I ask this because after you failed in your second attempt to get 85kgx5x3, what should you have done?

I think these questions are best answered in on reply. I've read the Programming section of SS:BBT twice and I just skimmed over it again after reading your post but I don't know what you're referring to. Maybe use smaller increments (page 297)? I really didn't get much out of the programming section so I stuck to the starting strength wiki

How do I know if I've "officially stalled" and need to reset?

Simply put, 3 strikes and you're out.

So I thought as long as you get the weight done in 3 workouts I can add weight. But it seem's that I misinterpreted this.

You mention that you are coming back from sickness? What was this illness? Was it debilitating? Did you have cancer? Did you have a leg amputated for gangrene?

I got abdominal flu for one week and ran 40 times to the lavatory in 48 hours. Lost about 2-3 kg of bodyweight and about 15 on the squat.

What were your PRs prior to the illness?

Squat was 82,5 kg

And for doG's sake, why on earth do you only weigh 164 pounds? YOU NEED TO FUCKING EAT.

I got that, just asking what Do i have to do with the weights now and why the rep numbers were so odd.

[Steve Hill]

The SS wiki basic definition of a stall is OK, but you'd do real well to read and understand everything that plays into WHY a novice stalls. The reason that I say you were stuck at 85kg was because it was your 2nd workout back. Taking into consideration the following:

1) You were coming off illness
2) The fact that you failed on your 2nd workout back
3) AND you failed that same workout AGAIN (on your 3rd workout back)
4) Your stated calorie intake

I would posit that all these factors combined pretty much equal that you were stuck, but by your own hand. Your 2nd workout failing should have been the warning flag that you were in major trouble.

So, where do you go from here? I would say that your poor choice of a weight for re-starting the program has left you with not much of a choice. I think you are going to have to re-start (again), but you are going to need to go back more than 10%, and you're going to have to eat a lot. And by a lot, I mean A LOT. If I were coaching you, you'd go back to 60kg or so, and go to about 6000kcal a day, and use a 2.5kg increment. And we'd see how long you could ride that out. If you are eating and sleeping, it should be to at least 100kg, and probably more. But it's the eating and sleeping thing that are what's going to make or break where you go from here. Lots and lots of milk, and lots and lots of quality food - though there's plenty of room for bacon double cheeseburgers, you need to make sure you're getting a lot of protein. Bacon and eggs for an after dinner snack, that sort of thing. It's a tough job, but someone who wants to get strong has to do it.

[JayvH]

Alright, that is a much bigger reset than I expected. Just to be clear, after my illness 67,5kg x 5 x 3 was the first thing I could handle so that was my first workout back. This weight I increased 2,5 kg each workout until 85kg. I didn't mention that my training partner was catching me with cutting my depth a tad high. So I took 5 kg off again came back to 85 kg and this correct 85 kg workout is the one you are seeing in my first post as the wednesday of the first week.

EDIT: After rereading Rip's A Clarification article I am not so sure if 6000 kcal a day is a good idea. As Rip is saying, when reaching BF levels of 18-19% a cut back to 4000 kcal a day is useful so BF doesn't get out of control. I'm currently at ~17%.

[Steve Hill]

EDIT: After rereading Rip's A Clarification article I am not so sure if 6000 kcal a day is a good idea. As Rip is saying, when reaching BF levels of 18-19% a cut back to 4000 kcal a day is useful so BF doesn't get out of control. I'm currently at ~17%.

So if you're at 17%, then you're not at 18-19%, correct? So do the 6000kcal until you're at the higher end of that, for several reasons - chief amongst them you are coming off an illness and need to recover from that as well. You can lose the fat easily in 3-4 weeks once you get strong. Your failure on your 2nd workout back, as explained, has me worried that that repeated attempts in this weight range will only keep you stuck. Look at it this way: at 2.5kg per workout, you will be back where you are right now in 9 workouts (3 weeks), and you will have re-established a good linear progression. I think, in the end, that is the most important thing. Returning from illness is a very different thing than from returning from vacation or other time off.

[JayvH]

OK, it seems that I just don't get this recovery thing. According to the diagrams of the beginner section in Practical Programming I thought that I could look from workout to workout. As long as I get enough food and sleep (plus some minor things like vitamins) I am good to go. If a workout fails I correct the issue (probably nutrition) and I am back on track.

It's obviously not that easy but I am curios how the programming part of SS:BBT or even Practical Programming is describing how to evaluate and than revolve these signs.