Anaerobic Endurance for Fighters

[ZenGeek]

Hi Rip,

I know that you're not my own personal coach, and I don't expect a custom program. I was just wondering if you could clarify some points from practical programming.

I've read PP, searched the threads and otherwise exhausted my limited mental capacity.

Whats a good way to train Anaerobic endurance for fighters (striking arts)? I'm still novice, focusing on strength and power but I'd like to incorporate some endurance aspects as well. Last time I went to training my pushups etc. had decreased DRAMATICALLY.


Every-time I ask someone about this they tell me that you can't train competing goals, so I was wondering about the following quote.

It is possible that endurance exercise activities that more closely resemble weight training would not have the same detrimental effect on power and strength performance. We suggest that high intensity glycolytic exercise not only drives improvements in VO2 max, but that this type of training can be used alongside weight training programs w i t h o u t significantly reducing strength gains..

You also seem to imply that interval training is similar enough to not cause as much disruption as other endurance work.

PP mentions sets across as an effective strategy, then almost immediately mentions 15rep sets. My thinking is that sets across is more metabolically specific (for stand up fighting).

Lighter-percentage sets can be done under controlled rest intervals to simulate the metabolic stress of the sport for a very effective preparatory tool.

Would speed sets be suitable for this?
My plan is to make one day a week "endurance day". I would be doing the same lifts as normal days, but for more sets across, 50-70% , fast!.

Also, for sets across, would 5x5 be a good starting point, adding sets if it's too easy? People here seem to hate 5x5 for novices. Volume could cause over-training as the weight progresses and the sets go up, so I was thinking of cutting reps to 3x3 on strength days to deal with this (eventually, still a long way off unfortunately). Could cause intensity based over training? Does such a thing exist, because everyone only seems to talk about volume?



Current Stats: 8/1/11______Height: 180 ish______ Weight: 83kg (a few weeks ago)______Age: 25

Squat 3x5: 77.5kg
Deadlift 1x5: 85kg
Rows (Bent/Barbell) 3x5: 60kg (I's sorry rip, I'm still learning PCs, I swear.)
Bench 3x5: 65
OHP 3x5: 50kg

[Mark Rippetoe]

You're not strong enough to worry about your endurance yet. Did you not wonder why your pushups had increased in volume even though you hadn't been training high reps? When the time comes, you'll use the Prowler because it doesn't interfere with continued strength acquisition. But not yet. For you, strength will improve your endurance, and you have to understand this.

[Mark E. Hurling]

Something that might be worth considering is to introduce a day of lifting with very short rest periods between sets and 3-4 exercises done back to back, much like circuit training. I did this with two "giant sets" of 3 exercises for several years and made so-so linear microloading progress with it. Since you are young enough for a good period of growth in your strength you could do one day a week of this with regular heavier work with longer rests between sets on each exercise. What I did was nothing but this kind of training all week and I'm sure it held back my strength gains. I would wear a heart rate monitor (still do now and again when I lift) and it would get my heart rate up to 75%-85% of MHR for the 30 some minutes the lifting would take.

[Mark Rippetoe]

He's a rank novice, Mark. Look at his numbers. NO specialization is necessary right now. None at all.

[Mark E. Hurling]

Sorry Rip. The use of metric measures, that evil plot by the French, always makes me glassy eyed when it comes to evaluating numbers. You're absolutely right. By God we all need to use barleycorns, rods, and fathoms as rational means of measure, none of this EU crap.

[LimieJosh]

He's a rank novice, Mark. Look at his numbers. NO specialization is necessary right now. None at all.

Sure, but in a more general sense I find it exasperating that "people" seem unable to differentiate training for cardio fitness with Long Slow Distance. There are a growing number of people who understand the importance of intensity, even with "cardio". However, rather than appreciating that this is simply what is required to increase VO2max, cardiorespiratory fitness or whatever term makes most sense to the person, they tend to seperate it from this standard approach by referring to it as "doing sprints", anaerobic endurance, or some other term that needlessly seperates it "from what those runners do". To improve cardio requires intensity. This is not novel, this is not controversial and it's something that has been in text books for 20 years.

[shootwillus]

As a former pro MMA fighter, my advice is the same. You need to get stronger. In addition to this you state that you are also a novice at your sport specific task (striking...I'm hoping muay thai or boxing? or something useful). If you are a novice in the sport, you will naturally develop more endurance as your technique improves. The thing I have noticed about fighting is if one guy squats 500lbs and another guy squats 450lbs...that comparatively small difference will not show itself in the ring. On the other hand you do not want to be a guy squatting 200lbs fighting a guy who squats 500lbs. You are going to be seriously out muscled and the only way to maintain an advantage is with a very sizable skill gap. Basically, get as strong as you can and practice the technical aspects of your sport. You do not need to do anything else for a little while. I wish someone had given me this advice a long time ago.

[ZenGeek]

You're not strong enough to worry about your endurance yet. Did you not wonder why your pushups had increased in volume even though you hadn't been training high reps? When the time comes, you'll use the Prowler because it doesn't interfere with continued strength acquisition. But not yet. For you, strength will improve your endurance, and you have to understand this.

My pushup numbers actually went DOWN. Maybe I was still recovering from a workout or something (it was 2 days later though). I know you've said that increasing max strenght makes lower intensity excercise easier, so maybe I just need to train my new strength in that specific movement?

You're right about strength my as well. That's the reason I'm here, I'm crazy fast, and my hits are powerful if the heavy bag is anything to go by (probably technique more than anything). But I'm not progressing and I think improving my strenght is the key to improving my power. (I also found it embarrasing struggling with the groceries...)

Strength first, endurance later.
Not what I was was hoping to hear, but sometimes we need to be told the awful truth (which was also a great show).
Would you sugest maxing out linear progression, or aiming for one of the strenght goals in the back of the book (at the moment I think I'm 'untrained' according to the table...).

Something that might be worth considering is to introduce a day of lifting with very short rest periods between sets and 3-4 exercises done back to back, much like circuit training

The book does mention reducing time between sets, and adding sets accross, which is why I was wondering if my suggestion about speed sets would be a good idea.
But I guess I focus on strength first, and then do Tabatas or something before competitions. (I have never even seen a prowler in Australia and had to google it to know what you were talking about).
That would seem to satisfy the requirements of the quote above, and your and Rip's advice about not letting it interfere with strength training.

I know that other people have asked about endurance before, and they often recieve the 'get stronger' advice.
Strength is still the main focus of my program, otherwise I wouldn't be bothering you.
I was just wondering if I could do them side by side, and whether my suggestion correctly reflected the details in the book.
So, the answers were 'no' and 'no', respectively.

Thanks Mark(s). Sorry for asking stupid questions, I must have been reading the book wrong.

[Misciagno]

As a former pro MMA fighter, my advice is the same. You need to get stronger. In addition to this you state that you are also a novice at your sport specific task (striking...I'm hoping muay thai or boxing? or something useful). If you are a novice in the sport, you will naturally develop more endurance as your technique improves. The thing I have noticed about fighting is if one guy squats 500lbs and another guy squats 450lbs...that comparatively small difference will not show itself in the ring. On the other hand you do not want to be a guy squatting 200lbs fighting a guy who squats 500lbs. You are going to be seriously out muscled and the only way to maintain an advantage is with a very sizable skill gap. Basically, get as strong as you can and practice the technical aspects of your sport. You do not need to do anything else for a little while. I wish someone had given me this advice a long time ago.

A bit off the subject at hand -- do you think this advice of get strong first and practicing technique applies to Olympic lifting as well? I've been making excellent (I think) progress with SS followed by the TM, hitting my short term goal this week of 5x5 squats with 315# and 5x5 bench with 225# (BWT=190). I would really like to add the O-lifts to my regimen (beyond weekly power cleans and snatches), but don't want to screw with the strength gains, which seem to be continuing just fine. Should I just practice the O-lift techniques with little weight until some point in the future when strength levels off, or is there a better way to add the quick lifts without overtraining or messing too much with TM?

[Mark Rippetoe]

That's the way it was done in the olden days. It's the method I advocate, and I'm glad it makes sense to you too.