Republican Primaries

[Simma Park]

You reap what you sow. You folks on the left have been loudly damning those of us with conservative views via blanket statements for a very long time. Some of us eventually tire of being considered uneducated, unenlightened, racist, and in need of "saving" by elites such as yourself.

It's kind of a constant back and forth. If you actually believe one side "started it", you are delusional.

Needless to say, "the other side does it" isn't really very good justification.

[veryhrm]

Er, not really. The article showed many places where Santorum had diverged quite widely from standard Catholic practice, to the extent of contradicting the Pope (of course, MEH does this too). Hence, he is picking and choosing what Catholic dogma to adhere to, and is thus a Cafeteria Catholic. This is one of the things that make him a hypocrite.

Man i dislike that article (which i just re-read). While at least half of the article is about Santorum being a liar, you're right that it makes other accusations of divergence from Catholic teaching. But the article itself is sloppy and not good at making full arguments.

e.g. on the vote for Iraq intervention.
I have no idea how Santorum thought about his vote on Iraq. If he thought "whoo yeah, let's go kill some people to take their oil" then yes, that would be in violation of the Just War doctrine, but there's no proof of that offered in the article.

Then there's this:

And, Gehring adds: "When questioned about how his economic views clash with the Catholic demand for a 'preferential option for the poor' in public policy, Santorum was completely unfamiliar with this bedrock Church teaching."

First of all, the phrase "preferential option for the poor" didn't exist until the 60s and it has its roots in "liberation theology" which has largely been opposed by the Church. Personally i hadn't heard the phrase until this article (but i'm not Catholic; though i did go to a Catholic HS and took religion courses there back in the 90s). Next, i haven't found support for the "in public policy" part asserted in the argument. If you read this pretty good description of the phrase http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/blog...-for-poor.html you'll note that it doesn't mention public policy at all.

This is clearly not a "bedrock Church teaching". Taking care of the poor, yes THAT is a bedrock Church teaching. Passing laws to redistribute money from the rich to the poor... not so much (afaik).

Anyway, i don't really want to defend Santorum because i don't like pretty much anything i hear him say or hear said about him, but this article itself is also mostly crap.

[tertius]

Right. Because no one can have a wrong-headed idea without it being racist.

Er, what other motivation is there behind the birther movement? It seems to me to be the most prominent display of the latent racism of this country in YEARS. I mean, the Bill Ayers kind of stuff, that's pretty standard, the same kind of things happened with Clinton.

But this obsession with the idea that Obama is a sekrit muslin and that he's really a Kenyan citizen and not an American are kinda beyond the pale. Especially given that McCain was actually born outside the US.

[Simma Park]

I have no idea. Couldn't the people who dislike Obama or are easily swept up in conspiracy theories so much to worry about this just be partisan republicans?

But why attack by questioning his Americanness? The idea that there is something questionable about Obama's Americanness boggles my mind. Why is it so hard to believe that he could be an American... unless you think brown people named Barack couldn't possibly be real Americans? There was actually a legitimate legal basis to challenge McCain's natural born citizen status, and it's actually STILL not certain whether he's truly a natural born citizen, but this isn't considered worthy of an entire movement.

If the people who worry about the birth certificate would also like Justice Thomas, then what?

It's very common for people who are racist against a certain minority to like and laud what they consider an atypical individual who belongs to that group as "one of the good ones". I mean, people say to me all the times things like "You're not one of THOSE Asians". You see how the fact that they find me acceptable in no way disproves their bias against Asians, right?

[ColoWayno]

On the other hand black conservatives have to endure being called Uncle Toms and have some pretty hateful things said about them because they aren't considered "down for the struggle".

[Simma Park]

On the other hand black conservatives have to endure being called Uncle Toms and have some pretty hateful things said about them because they aren't considered "down for the struggle".

Sure. This happens, too.

Prejudice is a complicated and multi-faceted thing that can have many manifestations. I don't know why people think it's so simple.

[Mark E. Hurling]

You reap what you sow. You folks on the left have been loudly damning those of us with conservative views via blanket statements for a very long time. Some of us eventually tire of being considered uneducated, unenlightened, racist, and in need of "saving" by elites such as yourself.

Man have I had a shit day at work. Sorry I couldn't contribute more to this. I love ya' sarge, but while I disagree with spar frequently she is not quite as bad as you characterize her to be. She's wrong on this too, but she is way more thoughtful and fair minded than most liberals.

[bob g]

...
But this obsession with the idea that Obama is a sekrit muslin and that he's really a Kenyan citizen and not an American are kinda beyond the pale. Especially given that McCain was actually born outside the US.

As was I, in Deutchland. I can't even read my own birth certificate. In fact one set of grandparents were from Wurttemberg near Freiburg. Hmmm. I always thought of myself as American but reading this thread gives me doubts. This scene resonates with me now.

[veryhrm]

But why attack by questioning his Americanness? The idea that there is something questionable about Obama's Americanness boggles my mind. Why is it so hard to believe that he could be an American... unless you think brown people named Barack couldn't possibly be real Americans? There was actually a legitimate legal basis to challenge McCain's natural born citizen status, and it's actually STILL not certain whether he's truly a natural born citizen, but this isn't considered worthy of an entire movement.

Not sure why you're boggled. His father was a foreign national with no American ancenstry. Not even an immigrant but a foreign student. His mom spent much of her adult life overseas, and not in the military or foreign service. He has a fair amount of "foreign-ness" about him and he has a weird name. Of course "Americanness" and "real American" are not fixed or well agreed upon concepts anyway.

None of that has anything to do w/ the legal question of whether he is a natural born citizen of the USA (which i think he was, and even if he wasn't i don't really care, but it's pretty weird that they haven't produced that damned paper yet).

Also, the McCain question is fair as well. I'm not at all convinced there wouldn't be a McCain birther movement if he had won the election. After all you still hear mentioned how Bush stole the election.

I'm sure some birthers are racist, but i don't think you have to be racist to be a birther. I think it's primarily partisanship.

It's very common for people who are racist against a certain minority to like and laud what they consider an atypical individual who belongs to that group as "one of the good ones". I mean, people say to me all the times things like "You're not one of THOSE Asians". You see how the fact that they find me acceptable in no way disproves their bias against Asians, right?

Oh you're definitely one of THOSE Asians. :-D

[Mark E. Hurling]

As was I, in Deutchland. I can't even read my own birth certificate. In fact one set of grandparents were from Wurttemberg near Freiburg. Hmmm. I always thought of myself as American but reading this thread gives me doubts. This scene resonates with me now.

Mein Freund! Wie gehtes Ihnen? Meine Volk war nach Einbeck und Hamburg.

Ich sehr liebe Herr Doktor Strangelove.

That gothic blackletter is hard as Hell to read.