Is it really necessary to eat so many calories?

[tzanghi]

Do what Briks suggested. Chances are you haven't been experiencing great gains in strength, so failing off of the bat won't be much of a deterring issue. If you find your lifts aren't going up, increase calories as much as you're comfortable with until you start to progress. It is true that eating less of a caloric surplus while lifting will translate into more muscle and less fat, but (a)you're susceptible to losing what took you a long time to accumulate if you drop weight real quickly(e.g., if you get sick) and (b)in general, it's a lot faster to put on both muscle and fat and then lose the fat later. Make sure you eat cleanly to avoid extra fat gains as well.

I started with the diet you're suggesting, and it worked at first. I'd eat regularly and then eat some more protein right before bed. Eventually I stopped making gains and enjoyed eating more, so I upped my caloric intake. I've gone from 158 to 176 and haven't noticed a large increase in fat. Keep in mind that some of the weight you gain will go to lean body mass other than muscle, such as the skeleton.

[lukeman3000]

"That said, people taller than me and lighter than me are MD's, physical therpists, diaticians, etc."

I don;t see how this is relevant. What do they know about strength training and muscle building?

"it's not necessarily an opinion that I hold fast to,"

Seeing as you have yet to add appreciable weight of any sort to your frame let alone muscle or have done it for other people, you really don't get to have an opinion on the matter, at least not one that counts. It would be like me having an opinion on marathon training, swimming or Velocity models for time/depth conversion for geophysics.

"but just dumb in general"
But yet you seem to find it okay to have an opinion about something you have never done or have trained other people through.

Moving on with the assumption that you're not trolling..

It's relevant because you don't have to be into strength training or bodybuilding to have an understanding of the human body.

As far as me not getting to have an opinion on it goes, you must have misunderstood me.

I'm not saying "This is right, this is wrong. I think you should do this because, I think you shouldn't do this because." I'm simply saying "This is the way it seems to be to me. Is it right? Is it wrong?" It's not so much an opinion as it is my understanding of the matter up to this point in time. I'm sure that once I'm 5 years into training, my understanding will be greater through experience. But I'm not 5 years into training, and I'm seeking the input of others with more understanding than me by posing questions that have been on my mind recently.

Again, no reason to be a dick about it.

[lukeman3000]

Do what Briks suggested. Chances are you haven't been experiencing great gains in strength, so failing off of the bat won't be much of a deterring issue. If you find your lifts aren't going up, increase calories as much as you're comfortable with until you start to progress. It is true that eating less of a caloric surplus while lifting will translate into more muscle and less fat, but (a)you're susceptible to losing what took you a long time to accumulate if you drop weight real quickly(e.g., if you get sick) and (b)in general, it's a lot faster to put on both muscle and fat and then lose the fat later. Make sure you eat cleanly to avoid extra fat gains as well.

I started with the diet you're suggesting, and it worked at first. I'd eat regularly and then eat some more protein right before bed. Eventually I stopped making gains and enjoyed eating more, so I upped my caloric intake. I've gone from 158 to 176 and haven't noticed a large increase in fat. Keep in mind that some of the weight you gain will go to lean body mass other than muscle, such as the skeleton.

Thanks. This is the kind of constuctinve input that I was seeking in the first place. I started at 135lbs and I'm up to 150. In my mind, I have put on appreciable weight. I'm not in a race against anyone else. However, I'm just trying to figure out the best way to move forwards. I think I have already made my beginner gains going from a paltry 135 to 150, so I don't expect to see those kinds of results again.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

"It's relevant because you don't have to be into strength training or bodybuilding to have an understanding of the human body."

Dr.s have knowledge of how to get an injured person to be not injured (sort of). They do not, in general, know how to get you stronger, faster, leaner or more enduring. Going to a Dr. for training advice is like going to Ph.D. E&M physicist for questions on how to wire your house.

I gave a brief explanation of why you can't just eat slightly over maintenance and still gain size and strength. Again, this is only for strength training. Endurance training behaves differently (excess calories don't do much good at all). But I have also coached others in this and done this myself. Your opinion is in correct. There is a point of diminishing returns, but again it is a sliding scale, not a cut off.

"Again, no reason to be a dick about it. "
Ifyou think was being dickish, you are in for a rough ride around here.

[lukeman3000]

"It's relevant because you don't have to be into strength training or bodybuilding to have an understanding of the human body."

Dr.s have knowledge of how to get an injured person to be not injured (sort of). They do not, in general, know how to get you stronger, faster, leaner or more enduring. Going to a Dr. for training advice is like going to Ph.D. E&M physicist for questions on how to wire your house.

I gave a brief explanation of why you can't just eat slightly over maintenance and still gain size and strength. Again, this is only for strength training. Endurance training behaves differently (excess calories don't do much good at all). But I have also coached others in this and done this myself. Your opinion is in correct. There is a point of diminishing returns, but again it is a sliding scale, not a cut off.

"Again, no reason to be a dick about it. "
Ifyou think was being dickish, you are in for a rough ride around here.

Telling me that I "don't get to have an opinion" about it just doesn't make sense. I can understand that in the context of me trying to tell others how to train when I haven't trained much myself, but not in the context of me simply trying to find answers. It seemed like you were taking my original question to far as if I was trying to tell others how to think, or that I was right.

I don't pretend anything; I am a noob and I know it. But noobs have brains, and they absorb things that they hear/read/experience/etc. My brain was telling me "why would you eat more than "necessary"", and I was simply coming here to compare my thoughts with those of others.

I think that your response would've been more justified if I was actually trying to tell people on this forum how to think, which I clearly am not.

[LimieJosh]

Briks is right to point out the rather obvious trap that many seem to fall into, and that is that you should incrememntally increase your intake as you gain weight rather than immediately start eating what you'll need to be eating after making 12 months of solid progress. If you fail to acknowledge that you will get fat. However, for someone who is 150lbs and of the mindset that they comprehend how much they need to eat this is not likely the major limitation. IMO what is far more likely to lead to success is driving home the understanding that if you try and find the goldlocks zone of eating in surpluss, but onyl enough to promote growth without fat then you will short change yourself. You will end up with unneccessary stalls, but more damagingly, become too acustomed to stalling and never realise how much of a capacity you have to improve with simple programming.

[tzanghi]

Thanks. This is the kind of constuctinve input that I was seeking in the first place. I started at 135lbs and I'm up to 150. In my mind, I have put on appreciable weight. I'm not in a race against anyone else. However, I'm just trying to figure out the best way to move forwards. I think I have already made my beginner gains going from a paltry 135 to 150, so I don't expect to see those kinds of results again.

Honestly, I'd bet you could experience those kinds of gains again. Take this with a large grain of salt because I'm no expert, but 5' 10", 150 is still pretty light, so I think your body may devote lots of the food you eat to building all types of lean mass up to a certain point because you're starting out with a relatively low mass. Add the lifting that you're doing, and you're bound to grow pretty well. Again, just make sure you're eating clean, and keep doing what you're doing unless problems arise.

[shaddix]

I have to think someone told me this sometime in the past and I just missed it. Anyway, +1 to the folks who said to titrate up your calorie intake.

Oh wait yeah tomc did and I ignored him and listened to the gomad guys. Then I got pissed and jumped on the msingh train for a while. Wasted about a year, don't do that.

[hrat]

Thanks. This is the kind of constuctinve input that I was seeking in the first place. I started at 135lbs and I'm up to 150. In my mind, I have put on appreciable weight. I'm not in a race against anyone else. However, I'm just trying to figure out the best way to move forwards. I think I have already made my beginner gains going from a paltry 135 to 150, so I don't expect to see those kinds of results again.

15lbs is appreciable weight?

Like Limie says; you could put a bunch of effort into finding what is "necessary" and most likely stall your progress trying to do it, or you could deliberately overshoot, and accept that you'll fix it later. Of course, you don't want to be stupid, but err on the upside, and it'll probably cause less problems than vice versa.

[DV]

15lbs is appreciable weight?

Like Limie says; you could put a bunch of effort into finding what is "necessary" and most likely stall your progress trying to do it, or you could deliberately overshoot, and accept that you'll fix it later. Of course, you don't want to be stupid, but err on the upside, and it'll probably cause less problems than vice versa.

This. And I gained 15 lbs in the first month of SS. Provided you keep increasing the weight and don't miss sessions, you gain a shit-ton of nice muscle (and some fat) for the first 3-4 months. I wouldn't shortsell myself either, but err on the side of eating slightly too much. Gaining muscle is hard, losing fat is comparatively easy.