Another low back rounding on the deadlift question

[Subsistence]

Sorry to bother you again. I asked KSC on his forum about programming to help with the deadlift, as I have been having troubles for ages with the low back rounding. He said he thought it was not a strength issue (and consequently not a programming issue) and said I should ask you about my technique. Topic here:

http://startingstrength.com/resource...ad.php?t=30296

Video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7Z7Dn8jEjc

I've read the deadlift section of the book, try to squeeze my chest up, seen your video on low back position and can contract my lumbar while standing at a whim. I've tried resetting and working back up, and added in RDLs to help with my back, though thus far to no avail.

Thanks for your time.

[Mark Rippetoe]

You sure have a lot of posts to be having such rudimentary problems. Come to Wichita Falls in June and we'll get you fixed up.

http://aasgaardco.com/store/store.php?crn=217

[Subsistence]

You sure have a lot of posts to be having such rudimentary problems. Come to Wichita Falls in June and we'll get you fixed up.

http://aasgaardco.com/store/store.php?crn=217

I am sorry but I can't. Thanks for all the help so far.

[Mark Rippetoe]

At some point, you'll need a coach. Typing has its limitations.

[Subsistence]

At some point, you'll need a coach. Typing has its limitations.

Yes, I just can't afford it at the moment though. Or do not prioritize it enough yet and am making shitty excuses. Not that you don't deserve the money either way. I'll do what I can in the interim, thanks.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I don't need the money, but you need the coaching if you want this fixed and you can't get it done on the web.

[Steve Hill]

Camps are cheaper than seminars. And we have those, too.

[Simma Park]

I've read the deadlift section of the book, try to squeeze my chest up, seen your video on low back position and can contract my lumbar while standing at a whim. I've tried resetting and working back up, and added in RDLs to help with my back, though thus far to no avail.

1) Is there a weight, even a silly light weight, at which you can perform the movement without losing control of your back?

2) Can you feel when your back loses extension?

If 1, the issue is dealing with ego. If the back cannot support the weight, it simply should not be allowed to go up. Period.

If 1 and 2, you need to train yourself to fail the lift by simply not having it go up, not after rounding, hitching, etc. You need to use that philosophy until you get really strong, after which you can violate it as you see fit.

If 1 and not 2, you need a buddy or coach who will both enforce weights that you can handle using correct form and yell at you every time it happens until you learn to feel when it happens.

If not 1, I don't know what to tell you. You might be a special snowflake, as TBone would say, and you need in-person evaluation and help from a coach.

[mlentzner]

In light of your predicament I guess you're stuck with my shitty advice.

A. At what weight does this rounding start to happen. If you don't know then the first thing you need to do is find out.

B. Subtract 10 pounds and start deadlifting with that weight. If it's 155 then just swallow your pride. Do it for 3x5 if it's light - assuming you can stay in position. Add 5 pounds per workout. Any rounding AT ALL constitutes a miss and that weight must be repeated.

What you're doing now is just ingraining the wrong movement pattern.

Note: it may be helpful to have your training partner slap you or jab you in the erector muscles just as you're starting your pull. This should help your "find" them.

[Subsistence]

1) Is there a weight, even a silly light weight, at which you can perform the movement without losing control of your back?

2) Can you feel when your back loses extension?

If 1, the issue is dealing with ego. If the back cannot support the weight, it simply should not be allowed to go up. Period.

If 1 and 2, you need to train yourself to fail the lift by simply not having it go up, not after rounding, hitching, etc. You need to use that philosophy until you get really strong, after which you can violate it as you see fit.

If 1 and not 2, you need a buddy or coach who will both enforce weights that you can handle using correct form and yell at you every time it happens until you learn to feel when it happens.

If not 1, I don't know what to tell you. You might be a special snowflake, as TBone would say, and you need in-person evaluation and help from a coach.

Thanks spar. I am sure I can do lighter weights. I can don't feel the back unlock as much as I can feel I if I need to return it to neutral at the top of the lift. In my video above, do you think my back unlocks on even the first rep? I thought it looked reasonably neutral but I imagine I am incorrect.

I also initially thought it a strength issue but was asked to get a form check by Rip by KSC as he didn't think I knew how to set or hold my arch. I thought I most likely just had a weak low back and needed to strengthen it, and was wondering if anyone had recommendations beyond deload and focus on form when it came to programming. The fact that Rip thinks I need coaching also to me implies that he doesn't think I am just lifting too much weight, but that I am physically retarded and don't know how to contract my low back hard enough to resist rounding (even if I can keep the area flat with a light weight).