I understand, thanks. And I get the wax on/off comment too:-) Very nice movie, till it got to the competition at the end, I thought.
Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling
While I will work on my form for a couple of months - which is the time it will also take me to get down to my target bodyweight - without looking to add poundage to the bar, a question for the future.
For people in the over 50 age group that are not going to be doing too much of the eating more calories for other health related reasons, what would be a sensible progression rate for adding pounds to the bar? An increase every week? Every couple of weeks? How many pounds at a time for squats, for instance? How to know that it is time to do so - when one can do 7-8 reps for the third work set?
Once I get to my target weight, my plan is to maintain it while adding strength, even if those gains take a lot more time. I also want to remain injury free to the extent I can control that. Time therefore isn't as finite as it may seem for a younger person in a hurry - though logically, it should be the other way around:-) An answer to the questions above may therefore please be given in this context.
Thanks, in advance for any advice.
Rip's books cover this pretty thoroughly. I recommend you get them and read them.
As for the weight loss, I suggest lifting hard and not worrying the weight loss and calorie restriction or too much cardio a great deal. You might discover that your body composition changes in a manner that doesn't show on the scale as much as it does in pulling in a notch in your belt and going from medium to large polo shirts or from large to extra large.
Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling
On the cardio, I have no interest in long distance running - I don't find that of much interest anyway and it messes up my knees and shins, but I do want to be able to run 3 miles comfortably, by getting to that level of activity thrice a week, because I have found that it keeps me light on my feet generally, and is a measure of being the right body weight for me. Although the strong lifts proponents say that this ability to run comes as a natural outcome of strength training, I am not so sure. Seems to me that SS with chins and dips, with that amount of running, and some swims for recovery, has the potential to be a long term activity to stay fit, strong and healthy.
While my weight loss makes steady progress - and now it is less of that and more of waist size of 34 inches that is a goal - I am working on a mixed program of SS and bodyweight work. For the latter, I am working on chin ups, dips and push ups, increasing volume steadily. No more machines, no more DB curls and rows!
From SS, I am only doing squats and presses, with the recommended programming. No bench press for lack of good spotting, and I am still unsure about the deadlifts. I think that the combination of press, dips and push ups would make up for not doing the bench press. Some time soon, I will have to get to grips with deadlifts.
Combining this with thrice a week running, this mixed program is working well for my current needs, which are probably different from most people here.
Because my food intake is limited just now, for the lifts I am only adding 5 pounds every week. But the SS book remains very useful to go back to, to make sure of form. The advice received here earlier to focus on just one aspect of form at a time and not get confused trying to do it all at once is working very well for me.
Two questions, for which I would appreciate guidance.
Squats: I am starting to "get" the hip drive and how it allows for an easier squat. I don't think I am leaning over too much yet, but I get a sense I am on the brink of doing that while starting to rise up. Is there a cue to be aware of so that I don't lean forward too much? Keeping the bar moving in a vertical line up from the mid foot is one, but is there a way to ensure that the hips don't rise up too much in advance of the quads engaging?
Press: Once the bar crosses the head on the way up, I find that pushing the body forward under the bar doesn't just facilitate the vertical drive, it also adds to the bar movement in a way that augments the shoulder muscles. Almost like a bit of a cheat. Is this how it is meant to be?
Thanks in advance for any tips.
If it feels like you're cheating by not doing a strict military press, you're using very light weight.
I don't understand.
Originally Posted by skipbeat
If by a military press you refer to Olympic style, even the guys who don't bend over backwards too much, drive the bar up without any movement of the body after the first leaning back, and the body is straightened out only once the weight is on top. I guess the press started looking like an incline bench press, which is why it got taken off the Olympics. But even then, I agree that there was no contribution to the lift from body moves after the bar started moving up.
The SS book recommends a different approach, where the body moves forward under the bar as soon as the bar clears the top of the head. My question is related to the assistance to the lift provided by that recommended body move forward under the bar.
And by standards here, of course it is a very light weight. But I thought that is a relative term, a weight that I can only do 5 reps with is heavy for me? Am I missing something?
I wasn't trying to be a dick, and whenever someone that isn't trying to be a dick is talking about weight, it's in relative terms. Moving under the bar gets the upper back into the movement and the positioning does "augment" the shoulders so they can perform more efficiently. I dunno about the old style of olympic pressing, but I can see where you're coming from - there are a lot of pictures of guys doing what looks like a standing incline bench press. I'm guessing that maybe these were record attempts, and on especially heavy presses it can be hard to get under the bar. Perhaps they were just so brutally strong that they overcame the form issue.
If you look at the Tommy Suggs interview on this site, he's got the words of an ancient and he advocates even less strict form than Rip's method in SSe3. It has a ton of layback and hip drive, and even a second layback at the sticking point -> maybe this is where the confusion stems from.
Originally Posted by skipbeat
So the augmenting is intended, is what you are also saying.
Too early for me to do anything in terms of form that is different from the what the book says though, I think, miles to go.
With just 3 kilos of weight left to lose to add to the 19 lost, I added deadlifts to my thrice a week workout schedule this week.
Which now looks like this:
Squats - 130 lbs, 3x5
Press - 90 lbs, 3x5
Deadlifts - 165 lbs, 1x5
Dips - Bodyweight, 5x12, PR 20
Chin ups - Bodyweight, 10x2, PR 5
Push ups - 5x15, PR 35
While the weights on the lifts are very low for a bodyweight of 185 lbs, they are all i can do just now. Chin up performance is still a long way from a target of 20 bodyweight reps, hence the high number of sets.
The other three days I run/walk for 40 minutes, working to taking part in a 5k race in a few weeks.
With a focus on maintaining bodyweight, which has been a lifelong challenge, I will have to not overeat, which means that progression will be slow. So, not the SS program, but for now this is what's working for me.
After 6 months of this, it will be time to take stock again.
Last edited by Kumar; 05-22-2012 at 10:51 PM.
Kumar, a suggestion to help prevent leaning forward that worked for me was to focus on keeping your weight on the outside center of your foot. I find this cue helps me keep the weight over the center of the foot and I notice the shift in the weight on my foot more quickly than I sense a change in body position.
Originally Posted by Kumar