Jordan's road to raw nationals

[DRice311]

I would also be interested on the discussion to switch to 5's. I'm guessing it is somehow related to the Coan/Gallager interview he just posted?

BTW - you weight 182? Have you cut weight?

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

@Drice- I've been on a pretty specific nutrition protocol. I want to weigh in at 181.9 at ~7-8% bodyfat as I feel like that will put me at the top of the weight class with the most amount of muscle mass I can carry. I've lost between 0-1lbs a week for the last 7-8 weeks and plan to hold steady up until the meet. I do one HITT session a week and just lift weights. I'm right there on the bodyfat right now so all is well both at the pool and at the gym.

Workout- Tue June 12- Lower Body Volume Day
Squat- 160kg x 5 x 5 (went pretty light on these just to get back into the groove of 5 x 5 and because I was still beat up from the weekend). I'll add 2.5 kg next week OR repeat this weight with less rest. More on why at the bottom of this post.
Power Clean- 80kg x 3, 85kg x 3, 90kg x 3, 95kg x 3, 100kg x 3
SLDL- 125kg x 10 x 3 sets
GH situps + 15lbs x 15 x 4 sets

Okay, about the 5's. I have a recorded conversation with Rip about 5's that I'll post when I get around to uploading the audio and cutting the correct segment. Basically here is how it went:

Original statement to Rip: I've been doing a lot of singles and doubles lately because 5's just beat me up so badly. I'm way better at singles and doubles.
Rip: That's because you've put in the work with 5's. 5's make you big and strong and able to lift heavy weights. Don't get away from 5's for too long.

Subsequent question in q/a portion of seminar: Rip, should a powerlifter do dedicated hypertrophy work to increase muscle mass for better leverages? Like sets of 10 or?
Rip: What increases strength more, 5's or 10's?
Me: 5's
Rip: What increases size more, singles or 5's?
Me: 5's
Rip: If you want to get big and strong, use 5's. 5's make you stronger and just add sets to increase the volume to get you bigger.
Matt Reynolds: When you get close to the meet, like 3-4 weeks out, it's okay to go triples and singles, because you established your strength with 5's.
Me: But what about singles or doubles on intensity day?
Rip: Those will work for awhile, but everyone always goes back to 5's.
Reynolds: 5's are where its at until you're peaking for a meet.
Rip: Steel is big on doubles these days for some reason. Just you watch, he'll be back to 5's in a year or so. Just do 5's (goes on to repeat the word "fives" for about 30 seconds to hammer it home). Do 5's, add weight, then repeat. When it gets heavy you can keep the weight the same from week to week or cut sets if you can't recover, but you're probably just doing too much extra shit. Stick to fives and then drop some volume on volume day as the meet gets closer and do some triples and singles as you need to. After the meet, back to fives.

In a few other conversations with him he made it abundantly clear that doing singles (or doubles, triples, etc) will work for awhile, but when they won't go anymore go back to 5's as they carry over nicely. He also felt that doing lots of singles was more appropriate for "testing" your strength, rather than developing it. So I'm back to 5's until July. Then I'll switch to either multiple triples or 3 sets of 5 on VD with ID being triples or singles at that point. I'm going to switch paused bench singles to doubles for awhile (per Rip) and deadlifts to fives (one top set). Then I'll titrate the volume down when the intensity goes up!

Hope this helped.

[Michael Wolf]

Back in the saddle again! Monday- June 11 Upper Body Volume

Well the starting strength seminar was cool, but a whirlwind! Here's a recap of Thurs-Today just to show you how beat up I will be feeling before I finally get a rest day (Wednesday).

Thurs- Arrived at WFAC- bench press 315/320 for paused singles, 185-202 press for singles, weighted chins, LTE, curlz, dinner with Rip + milkshake
Friday- Squats @ 405 x 5, DL x singles up to 600 x 0 (last completed rep was either 250kg or 255kg), Snatches, chins, SS lecture until 9pm
Saturday- Squat 315 x 5 x 3sets (for the seminar), Deadlift x 135 x 5, 225 x 5, 315 x 5, 365 x 5, 405 x 5 (for the seminar), Press x 95 x 5, 135 x 5, 155 x 5, 175 x 5 (for the seminar), dinner at buffet, bedtime at 1130pm
Sunday- Power Clean - 40kg x 3, 60kg x 3, 80 kg x 3, 90 kg x 3, 95kg x 3, Bench press- 135 x 5, 185 x 5, 225 x 5, 275 x 5, seminar until 6pm, drive to airport, flight at 955pm. Got home at 130am. Hit bed to die....
Monday- wake up at 6am- work until 1130am. Training Time.
After some prodding from Rip I'm back on 5's. Might be working with KSC here as far as getting ready for the meet.
Bench Press- 275 x 5 x 5
Press- 160 x 5 x 3 (strict)
Chins + 10lbs x 10 x 5 sets
LTE + DB Curls
Back to work, then now finally home!

I need some sleep and food!!!!!

I don't know Jordan...I was expecting more than a 405x5 deadlift from a guy who says he wants to go to the raw nationals...

Seriously though, it was great meeting you and you were a pleasure to coach on the platform. Gonna keep an eye on your log now as well, to make sure you're doing those 5's!

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

I don't know Jordan...I was expecting more than a 405x5 deadlift from a guy who says he wants to go to the raw nationals...

Seriously though, it was great meeting you and you were a pleasure to coach on the platform. Gonna keep an eye on your log now as well, to make sure you're doing those 5's!

Sonofa.....

I'm super jelly of that damn bench press of yours, 405 with no serious training!!! AHHHH! Thanks for the props man, good to meet you too. I'm gonna keep telling myself I could've pulled 495 x 5 if I wasn't so tired- it will help me sleep at night. Where's your log at btw, I'd like to keep up with what you're doing brother.

[DRice311]

@Drice- I've been on a pretty specific nutrition protocol. I want to weigh in at 181.9 at ~7-8% bodyfat as I feel like that will put me at the top of the weight class with the most amount of muscle mass I can carry.

Just an FYI - if it is a USAPL meet, the most you can weigh is 181.75.
I just finished my first meet (USAPL) and I weighed in at 191 - and I was definetly the smallest guy in my weight class. So your strategy is good, and will put you on equal ground - as long as you can keep your strength up while cutting.

He also felt that doing lots of singles was more appropriate for "testing" your strength, rather than developing it.

I would agree with this. That is actually one of the things I really like about 5/3/1 - you have the chance to work heavy 5's, triples and singles.

[Michael Wolf]

Sonofa.....

I'm super jelly of that damn bench press of yours, 405 with no serious training!!! AHHHH! Thanks for the props man, good to meet you too. I'm gonna keep telling myself I could've pulled 495 x 5 if I wasn't so tired- it will help me sleep at night. Where's your log at btw, I'd like to keep up with what you're doing brother.

If it makes you feel better, I can't do 405 right now. Hit a paused 360 at a meet last month, probably good for a 385 touch and go in the gym. But I'll have the paused up to 405 before too long, and then you can be jealous again. Though as a 242, I damn well better be benching more than you or else it's gonna get embarrassing!

My log is here, just starting back into a TM Split, after a post meet recovery and then schedule that fucked up my training for a few weeks.
http://startingstrength.com/resource...14&pagenumber=

[sking1001]

Thanks for that dialogue recap, Jordan! Looking forward to that audio too :-)

So...feel like answering a question in regards to volume? I usually increase my volume days by 5 pounds every 3 weeks. I have been thinking about doing 3x5, 4x5, then 5x5 for those 3 weeks. Then back to 3x5 for the next weight increase. Do you think, given the things you learned last weekend, that this is a good idea?

[djl236]

Rip: Steel is big on doubles these days for some reason. Just you watch, he'll be back to 5's in a year or so.

I work with Steel and he has me do a lot of doubles and triples over many sets. Its tough but I enjoy it.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

@drice311- Yeah that's what I meant. I'm already at that weight and it hasn't seemed to effect my strength but I still have 7 weeks to go to try and set some PR's.

@Wolf- I like to imagine you casually benching 405 for a triple in an affliction T and some sweet nike airmax 93's- while listening to Skrillex. Post a video of that and I'll be reaaaaaaaaaaaal jealous, bro. I'll be following that log for sure.

@djil236- Sounds like a pretty good program to me!

@sking1001- Honestly, I think that's too slow of a progression. That has you staying at the same weight for 3 weeks basically while your tonnage (work set weights x reps) goes up drastically each week. I'd rather see either a pyramid setup for work sets or a single ball busting set + back offs all within the 5 rep protocol. Let's say your workset weights for the previous volume day was 345 x 5 x 4 sets (6900lbs total) the next week might look like:

Squat- warm ups x whatever you like then work sets count as follows: 310 x 5, 320 x 5, 330 x 5, 340 x 5, 350 x 5 (8250 lbs) Each week bump the overall tonnage by moving up 5lbs on each set. Or, you could just do a top set of 5 at 350-355, then strip 5-10% off and do the other 4 sets of 5 there.

[sking1001]

@sking1001- Honestly, I think that's too slow of a progression. That has you staying at the same weight for 3 weeks basically while your tonnage (work set weights x reps) goes up drastically each week. I'd rather see either a pyramid setup for work sets or a single ball busting set + back offs all within the 5 rep protocol. Let's say your workset weights for the previous volume day was 345 x 5 x 4 sets (6900lbs total) the next week might look like:

Squat- warm ups x whatever you like then work sets count as follows: 310 x 5, 320 x 5, 330 x 5, 340 x 5, 350 x 5 (8250 lbs) Each week bump the overall tonnage by moving up 5lbs on each set. Or, you could just do a top set of 5 at 350-355, then strip 5-10% off and do the other 4 sets of 5 there.

So do you mean it's too slow of a progression overall, since I'm dropping back to 3x5 after the weight increase? With a drastic increase in tonnage going from 3x5/4x5/5x5, it sounds like the implication is that the progression is too fast...at least for those 3 weeks.

Also, since I'm still setting new PR's each and every week on intensity day, isn't making progress on volume day less important since it's purpose is to drive intensity day?

I hope I'm not coming across as argumentative, because I really appreciate the input.