Rip's New Article: Is Olympic weightlifting strength training?

[f4thpathway]

Can I ask a couple of simple-minded questions

1. OTC in Colorado Springs is at altitude. This will confer an advantage for aerobic athletes over other athletes who don't train at altitude. However, does this confer an advantage on a highly anaerobic sport like O-lifting? Won't the primary effect be that it will be harder to recover from training?

2. If we know the names of the lifters at OTC, and the dates of their arrival there, and their records in competition before and after, we should be able to see the "value-added" that OTC training has provided to their personal best lifts. Does such a table exist?

Training hard here in the Springs is not difficult. The pay off is huge though. Going even 1500-2000 feet lower (Denver) allows for nice performance gains. Going to normal altitude adds a remarkable boost. But the difficulties in adapting to altitude apply more to endurance events and walking uphill to certain bars.

The problem isn't the altitude since it provides benefit. The problem is programming.

[chris_h]

Excellent article, really good ready.
Rip, in relation to this, what do you think of Charniga's meta-analysis of Russian publications regarding the correlation between squatting and the olympic lifts?

http://www.dynamic-eleiko.com/sporti...ticles007.html

[Mark Rippetoe]

Is there some part of this material you'd like to examine?

[DV]

Training hard here in the Springs is not difficult. The problem isn't the altitude since it provides benefit.

I can second this. I have been working out at about ~12.000 feet for a few years now. Lifting is about the same, after some adaptation. Some of the high-rep deals are a bit more difficult, but nothing that can't be handled.

I don't want to weigh in on something that I know little about but squatting 1xweek with no deadlifts sounds pretty insane to me. When I did OL in Denmark, I saw squats, deadlifts and presses every time I was in the gym (along with snatches, cleans etc. of course).

[slowjoe]

That data is available. Not in a table collated by USAW, because that would not be useful.

I guess this depends on the definition of "useful".

For the average fan of US Weightlifting rather than staff of USAW, or indeed anyone trying to assess your criticisms of OTC objectively, a different definition of "useful" might apply. Either you are correct that lifters stagnate at OTC, or you are not. The answer is in the data.

[Mark Rippetoe]

The answer is in fact in the data. And I am correct. Many people have remarked on this over the years the program has been in existence. Maybe I can find it for you, but I have only seen it in print in Denis Reno's newsletter, which has for many years done the National Office's job for them.

[tdood]

And here's a bit of evidence that the Chinese do in fact pull very heavy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz53V...e_gdata_player

God look at those beautiful psycho snatch-grip deadlifts. We're fucked.

[tdood]

If your ideas were instituted so that PRs became a requirement, and our best lifter in a weight class failed to achieve new PRs, what would the consequences be for that lifter?

Death, obviously.

Actually Coach, the obvious implications to me were that if a lifter was failing to make PRs, his training would be assessed and tweaked by the very bright coaches who implimented the program which required limit-attempt deadlifts and LBBSs. If he were our best lifter in his weight class, he would remain in his spot until a better one came along. DUH?!?!

There is a chance that these lifters 1rm deadlift might not improve for very long or for very much, but the fact that they are regularly pulling off the floor and holding in their hands much more weight than being used in their competition lifts will make the snatch and clean weights feel much lighter by comparison (as you've stated).

In my own experience, awhile back I hadn't tried a limit attempt deadlift for a few months, just alternating between rack pulls, haltings and shrugs. At some point I did a shrug with 605 and thought as I stood there and held it, "This isn't that heavy."
I came in 3 days later and ripped 550 off the floor. A PR by 35lbs.

[NewWorldMan]

I like the article.

Is there anyway we could see what a typical program from the OTC would look like?

Here's a sample for a lifter who went there for a camp.

http://assets.teamusa.org/assets/doc...ing_upload.pdf

Not sure what the full-time resident would get, but the template seems to be lifts MWF (sn in AM;cj PM) and squatting and positional type assistance work on TThS. I've noted from a lifter that Coach Smalcerz programs remotely (while away at school) that it seems to be high block Monday, low block Wednesday, and floor on Friday. Also, a good number of complexes (i.e. 2 pulls + a snatch or clean pull + clean).

[12 12 Fireball]

You can deadlift more than you can clean, jerk, and snatch. You can squat more than you can clean, jerk, and snatch. The press is where I start to question things. Your going to have to lower the weight if you want to press a weight overhead as opposed to jerking it? I don't see why a standing press would play a major roll in a strength program for people who are putting up much more weight overhead already?