Strength Training and Bodyfat Levels

[mikeyfresh]

Eating a caloric excess and then using the prowler to get an accumulated deficit by the end of the day can be tricky because there's no real accurate way to track the calories burned while doing prowler work. You being a guy who self admittedly is not prone to doing things "smartly" doesn't make that scenario any better. I think it would be best to just adjust your calories into a deficit, that way everything is easier to track and you can still do prowler work for insurance. You probably might want to make adjustments in your macro intake as well. Carbs are not as essential as fats and protein when it comes to making a macro plan. You should calculate your protein and fat needs first, and whatever calories are left over will be your carbs. This insures you aren't protein/fat deficient. Calories wise, it's either:

Let's say you eat 4000 calories as maintenance...

Scenario 1: Eat >4000 cal while doing prowler and hope you've done enough to go below 4000 and that the calories you burn can add up to an amount that will allow you to lose weight by the week

Scenario 2: Eat 3500 cal while doing prowler, which will guarantee a deficit and thus weight loss

Do you want to play the guess-and-hope game or do you want to get this over with as efficiently as possible and just lose the weight? Just my opinion though, I'm no PhD nobel-prize winner.

[Mark Rippetoe]

For a typical trainee who is not trying to lift in the highest, unlimited class of a strength sport, at what point does fatness and the associated hormonal problems (insulin resistance, nutrient partitioning, aromatization of androgens to estrogens, etc.) become a detriment to strength gains?

Im not talking about the pursuit of abs. I'm asking for your opinion on the sweet spot of size where additional calories go primarily towards strength gains, not additional body fat. If you know.

It will obviously vary with the individual, but it's probably at the level of calorie intake where bodyweight continues to increase and strength does not.

[mikeyfresh]

My comment: "You being a guy who self admittedly is not prone to doing things "smartly" doesn't make that scenario any better." was directed at the wrong fellow. Sorry, ignore that op.

[DV]

I would say that cutting milk and junk (i.e. doing what it says in the Clarification article) would probably be enough to shed a bit of the BF, while still making strength gains. Once the squat is somewhere past 315, you can start worrying more about bodycomp, when you switch to an intermediate template.

Getting to the higher teens of BF really isn't much harder than not eating crap. It's exceedingly hard to get/stay "fat" on meat, veggies and rice.

[skipbeat]

Eating a caloric excess and then using the prowler to get an accumulated deficit by the end of the day can be tricky because there's no real accurate way to track the calories burned while doing prowler work. You being a guy who self admittedly is not prone to doing things "smartly" doesn't make that scenario any better. I think it would be best to just adjust your calories into a deficit, that way everything is easier to track and you can still do prowler work for insurance. You probably might want to make adjustments in your macro intake as well. Carbs are not as essential as fats and protein when it comes to making a macro plan. You should calculate your protein and fat needs first, and whatever calories are left over will be your carbs. This insures you aren't protein/fat deficient. Calories wise, it's either:

I wasn't clear in my other post, but the goal wasn't to lose bodyweight and gain strength at the same time. It was to lose bodyfat and gain strength. I was intending on holding my weight as steady as possible without breaking out my phone to log every single thing I put in my mouth, eating at maintenance or higher, while sort of balancing it out with the prowler work and not eating like a fatass. Obviously counting calories is more efficient, but you can have a solid diet without it. Anyways, I'm sure it's possible with adjusted programming, at least for a while.

[mikeyfresh]

Explain to me how you are going to lose fat without losing bodyweight? You are implying that you can burn off fat while gaining muscle at the same time (thus keeping your bodyweight but changing your body composition), which unless you are just super new to everything, is not optimal. It's possible to lose weight (bodyfat) without counting calories, you'd be playing an estimation game with the prowler. But to gain muscle while losing a substantial amount of fat simultaneously to the point where it evens out isn't something too realistic unless you REALLY know what you're doing nutritionally with a specialized program. I'd post a few studies/articles from Lyle McDonald, but he gets a bad rep around here so I'll refrain.

[skipbeat]

Explain to me how you are going to lose fat without losing bodyweight?

By getting stronger at my current bodyweight. From what I've read, it should work to reach "normal" bodyfat levels, and then I can choose whether I want washboard abs or to get stronger. Even if it's not optimal, I still plan on trying stuff. Have you personally tried to do something similar in this situation, or did you just read it was impossible and not even attempt it? Nike: Just do it. Also, I did say I would switch my programming up to intermediate or some crap like 5-3-1 because slow gains > no gains.

[hsilman]

I really don't understand the disdain/snobby attitude about counting calories that goes on in general on this board. You guys act like it's some monumental obsessive task.

I'm currently cutting with a goal of 2500 kcal a day, and counting my calories using the myfitnesspal app on my android phone. If I spend more than 2 minutes total throughout the day inputting the food I eat, I'd be very surprised.

I don't understand why you would think it's important to log your workouts every day in order to accurately gauge progress and stay on track, but you think your eating habits don't deserve this minimum level of attention. It just smacks of abject laziness to me.

Now, if you had to write down what you ate and have a physical log that you had to calculate while sitting at your computer, at least there's some effort involved there and maybe I could understand thinking that is "obsessive". But I'm willing to bet the majority of people poo-pooing calorie counting spend more time playing words with friends on their phones(or browsing this forum) than it would take them to track their food intake.

Can you regulate your body weight (either up or down) without counting calories? Well, obviously yes. I would have to be insane and compeltely disregard reality in order to say that it isn't possible. However, it is my belief that utilizing the tool of calorie counting that is readily available will MAXIMIZE your ability to do this. I think it is by far the most usefull tool in our pocket when it comes to acheiving the level of bodyfat/strength that we are aiming for(so yes, for both gaining and losing weight). Why this isn't the FIRST thing that is recommended, and why it seems that people think you SHOULDN'T do it, I seriously can't understand. It boggles my mind.

[wakk0]

Mikeyfresh I assume your previous comment was directed at me. Thanks for thoughts.

[mikeyfresh]

By getting stronger at my current bodyweight. From what I've read, it should work to reach "normal" bodyfat levels, and then I can choose whether I want washboard abs or to get stronger. Even if it's not optimal, I still plan on trying stuff. Have you personally tried to do something similar in this situation, or did you just read it was impossible and not even attempt it? Nike: Just do it. Also, I did say I would switch my programming up to intermediate or some crap like 5-3-1 because slow gains > no gains.

It's not impossible, it just takes a well worked out structured diet and program, and even then it is questionable and obviously not optimal. Getting stronger at your current bodyweight doesn't mean you'll make up the fat loss with muscle, it just means you'll get stronger. And gaining the same amount of muscle as fat loss simultaneously... I don't think it'll work out. I don't have to try it because thousands of others have already tried and researched it before hand.

I don't understand why you would think it's important to log your workouts every day in order to accurately gauge progress and stay on track, but you think your eating habits don't deserve this minimum level of attention. It just smacks of abject laziness to me.

Now, if you had to write down what you ate and have a physical log that you had to calculate while sitting at your computer, at least there's some effort involved there and maybe I could understand thinking that is "obsessive". But I'm willing to bet the majority of people poo-pooing calorie counting spend more time playing words with friends on their phones(or browsing this forum) than it would take them to track their food intake.

Can you regulate your body weight (either up or down) without counting calories? Well, obviously yes. I would have to be insane and compeltely disregard reality in order to say that it isn't possible. However, it is my belief that utilizing the tool of calorie counting that is readily available will MAXIMIZE your ability to do this. I think it is by far the most usefull tool in our pocket when it comes to acheiving the level of bodyfat/strength that we are aiming for(so yes, for both gaining and losing weight). Why this isn't the FIRST thing that is recommended, and why it seems that people think you SHOULDN'T do it, I seriously can't understand. It boggles my mind.

I agree with this. You can lose wait without tracking, but counting calories takes the guess work out. It's not hard to do at all either, a few minutes a day. Learning how to track your food is a hell of a lot easier than learning how to squat, and just as useful.