Strength Training and Bodyfat Levels

[Regin Smidur]

OP, your going to end up having to cut for 6-8 months, and your going to lose a lot of strength and mass in that time. Don't be surprised if your not that far off from where you started when the cut is over.

[AndrewS]

OP, your going to end up having to cut for 6-8 months, and your going to lose a lot of strength and mass in that time. Don't be surprised if your not that far off from where you started when the cut is over.

As per usual, the internet masks playful sarcasm and it's cousin idiocy very well. Can't tell which this is. I certainly hope telling a 204lb guy that has gotten significantly stronger since starting the program that he needs a 6+ month cut is a joke.

[t0rment]

OP, your going to end up having to cut for 6-8 months, and your going to lose a lot of strength and mass in that time. Don't be surprised if your not that far off from where you started when the cut is over.

Doesn't this depend on how big and strong he gets before he cuts? Let's say a trainee goes from 20% BF to 35% BF and works up to 450/300/500 over a period of two to three years. Let's assume ~40-50% of mass gained was LBM. Do you really think they're going to be close to where they started after a long cut? Seems kind of absurd to me. Granted, it's an inefficient way of doing things, and I'm not saying you're wrong, but I haven't seen any real examples of such a situation.

[hsilman]

Doesn't this depend on how big and strong he gets before he cuts? Let's say a trainee goes from 20% BF to 35% BF and works up to 450/300/500 over a period of two to three years. Let's assume ~40-50% of mass gained was LBM. Do you really think they're going to be close to where they started after a long cut? Seems kind of absurd to me. Granted, it's an inefficient way of doing things, and I'm not saying you're wrong, but I haven't seen any real examples of such a situation.

I would say at the end of SS, I was 205 with 135# of lbm, which is pretty close. I started the program at 173#, and was probably way too fat to begin with, ie shouldn't have gained much weight to start. Also, it seems I've been slapped with the genetic lottery loss and tend to gain more fat than muscle. Of course, I've never been lean when I start gaining weight/strength, so that's probably a big factor.

Anyways, 205 with 135#. I would think if you can lift those numbers, you'd have more LBM, but it doesn't matter since the % are the same. In order to get to 10%(most people start counting "lean" at 12% I think, but let's just make it easy), I'd have to get to 150#. That's 55# of fat loss, assuming I lose no LBM at all during the cut(I think this is relatively possible. Under 1% loss at least). At a steady rate of 2#/week(which most people say is a good steady loss that will minimalize LBM loss), that's 27.5 weeks of cutting. Let's be honest and round it up to 30 weeks because weight loss is never linear, and eventually 2#/week is unrealistic since you'd have to cut too many calories(i think).

30 weeks sounds damn similar to 6 months to me. Is it possible to lose faster through methods like PSMF? yes, obviously. However, for MOST people RFL/keto type diets don't work to well. Adherence is low because they suck, you don't learn proper eating habits, and you have a high risk of losing LBM. They do work for a small minority though, and they work well for them. But we're gonna take your average joe here, and 2#/week fat loss is the best one can consistently expect through normal dieting.

[Chris Puckett]

Why do these nutrition threads always deteriorate into this shit? See why I don't participate?

because people are not eating enough

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

A little anecdotal experience here. In college I got up to ~220 with a body fat between 12-17% depending on how many beers, tacos, and burgers I had in the previous 72 hours. My lifts at the time were a legit 405 x 3-5? squat, 365 x 2 touch and go bench (strict), and 545 pull (sumo). I had only been training the big lifts for 2.5 years at that point and my form left a lot to be desired in the squat and DL. Graduated college about 215 in 2008.

It is now 2012 and I'm 181 and ~7-8% BF (veins in abs, striations in quads/chest/delts, etc blah blah) and my current training maxes are: 450 x 1/405 x 5 squat, 320 paused bench (competition commands), and 550 pull (conventional). Probably would be much stronger at 200+ but it is possible to cut to a low bodyfat without losing much strength. I took some serious time off strength training over the course of 2008-2010 so I lost a lot of strength there as well.

[Chris Puckett]

If you need to count calories, you aren't eating well enough.

I'd say counting them once could maybe be useful for those that are skinny and think they eat a lot.

let me guess, not 'clean' enough?

[Aleksandr28]

Correct me if I'm wrong here; but after you've gained gobs of muscle (reflected in the significant gains in the lifts) along with the excess poundage in %BF.... cutting isn't going to take all that muscle away. A simple reduction in calories, or perhaps adding an activity (such as cardio) could easily create a calorie deficit of 500-1000 calories a day. It would be a bit easier with the excess muscle too, which bumps the metabolism making it easier to create that deficit without having to eat like a bird.

[mikeyfresh]

Correct me if I'm wrong here; but after you've gained gobs of muscle (reflected in the significant gains in the lifts) along with the excess poundage in %BF.... cutting isn't going to take all that muscle away. A simple reduction in calories, or perhaps adding an activity (such as cardio) could easily create a calorie deficit of 500-1000 calories a day. It would be a bit easier with the excess muscle too, which bumps the metabolism making it easier to create that deficit without having to eat like a bird.

An increase in the lifts does not always indicate an increase in muscular hypertrophy. Often times one accompanies the other, but remember that correlation does not equal causation, and in terms of maximal strength training, looking at the numbers is not an absolute measure of aesthetic progress. The amount of muscle you add is likely to have little effect on your metabolic demands, as one pounds of muscle at rest burns approximately 6 calories. The normal rate of muscle growth in a trained individual, even novices, will likely not induce a huge increase in their resting metabolic rate. And no, of course cutting won't cause muscle loss if done correctly. Muscle loss can be nullified or minimized if the stress and demand on your muscles are kept. You lose what you don't use, this is even more true when in a caloric deficit. And unless you are really really fat or if your maintenance calories is simply huge, there is really no need for such a drastic deficit as 1000 cal.

[Regin Smidur]

Doesn't this depend on how big and strong he gets before he cuts? Let's say a trainee goes from 20% BF to 35% BF and works up to 450/300/500 over a period of two to three years. Let's assume ~40-50% of mass gained was LBM. Do you really think they're going to be close to where they started after a long cut? Seems kind of absurd to me. Granted, it's an inefficient way of doing things, and I'm not saying you're wrong, but I haven't seen any real examples of such a situation.

I was referring more specifically to the OP's situation. He's currently 25% bodyfat and planning to continue to 30%. That doesn't give him much room to gain so he'll probably reach his limit in a fairly short amount of time. A 6-8 month bulk like OP has done is not going to be very fruitfull once he's dieted down.