Rhythm Sections

[bob g]

I'm a little amazed (and disappointed) I get to contribute Entwistle and Moon as my first post. Add to that almost any decent jazz trio... Plus (in no particular order) Jaimoe, Trucks, Oakley and G. Allman and/or D. Allman/Dickey Betts.

These are all good points, Joe. The early Allmans truly utilized the rhythm section as a foundation for the leads at a time when many drummers and bassists were only concerned about cymbal crashing and thumping as they waited for the obligatory solo. I am of an age where I purchased the Fillmore and Eat A Peach albums when they were released. Acknowledging that D. Allman is irreplaceable, the recent troop with Haynes and the younger Trucks is just as good.

And to all for the recognition of Tower of Power, yes, absolutely yes. I'm going to have to dig into some of the other artists that I either don't know of or haven't listened to in years.

[Joe Murphy]

Bob, who knows where Duane would have taken the guitar had he lived? A working blues guitarist I know stresses to me how good Duane was when he played RYTHYM, let alone slide or lead. I had the great pleasure of seeing Tedeschi Trucks a year ago. Some of that band's jams actually brought tears to my eyes. I think Derek could be the greatest slide player of all time. And without question the ABB was the greatest American rock band...and I'm a power trio kinda guy.

[bob g]

While not a trio I saw Gov't Mule last Wednesday. There is some power on that stage.

[Red Finn]

I am partial to the purity and power exhibited by power trios especially. Once you get eight or ten guys up there paying bongos and what not it kind of dilutes it for me. Often I don't even want keyboards in there.

No one has mentioned John Paul Jones and John Bonham yet? 'When The Levee Breaks' and 'Kashmir' feature great drumming, and 'Achilles Last Stand' has a strong bass line and drumming. Can we count 'The Lemon Song'?

[bob g]

...
No one has mentioned John Paul Jones and John Bonham yet? 'When The Levee Breaks' and 'Kashmir' feature great drumming, and 'Achilles Last Stand' has a strong bass line and drumming. Can we count 'The Lemon Song'?

Zeppelin was, um, really fucking good. I was going to mention them but didn't want to over do the 70s theme.

Speaking of which, everyone has a built in generational bias to the point where, "they stopped making decent music around (fill in the year you turned 20)" is pretty much a universal view. But, for you musicians out there, looking across the years were the dudes mentioned in this thread really exceptional or are we shining spotlights on the heroes of our collective ute? (Channeling Joe Pesci.)

[hamburgerfan]

I can't listen to Zeppelin without thinking about how much I'd rather be listening to Sabbath.

[Joe Murphy]

Zeppelin was, um, really fucking good. I was going to mention them but didn't want to over do the 70s theme.

Speaking of which, everyone has a built in generational bias to the point where, "they stopped making decent music around (fill in the year you turned 20)" is pretty much a universal view. But, for you musicians out there, looking across the years were the dudes mentioned in this thread really exceptional or are we shining spotlights on the heroes of our collective ute? (Channeling Joe Pesci.)

Although I am not a musician, I'll try to answer: NO! The bands I like the most (in no order) are the Who, Stones and Zeppelin, Hendrix and a bunch of Clapton's earlier stuff with Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac tossed in plus my beloved ABB. (How I could have left old Fleetwood Mac out of my rhythm section response is a lapse that will not happen again.) My bias for these bands is not about my being 'young' when they were current as I was too young for them at the time they were current--that is, under 10 years old. I came to them later and I have a grasp of what they did with the music-where they took it and what the foundation they laid enabled newer, still younger bands to do. (The Beatles were in there, too--I just don't like them. Sorry.) Also, I need to mention the earliest Jethro Tull records, which may not be as influential as the others I mention were certainly part of a Brit-Blues ethos... Those JT recordings swing in a way that's hard to describe... at least for me.

[Red Finn]

Speaking of which, everyone has a built in generational bias to the point where, "they stopped making decent music around (fill in the year you turned 20)" is pretty much a universal view. But, for you musicians out there, looking across the years were the dudes mentioned in this thread really exceptional or are we shining spotlights on the heroes of our collective ute? (Channeling Joe Pesci.)

I was born in '92 but I pay as little attention to contemporary popular music as possible. If we are talking about rock music then the point for me is that a) it needs to sound like a bunch of guys making music, i.e. organic, and 2) it can't be too heavy in terms of distortion.

My first point is easy to address. Music today is slick to the point of sliminess. Instrumentation has taken a back seat to computers. Apparently even human performance has taken a back seat to computers. Lennon and McCartney were formulaic too, but at least it has a human quality to it.

Rock music from the 50s (like 'Peggy Sue') sounds horribly flaccid and aimless to my ears. (I am ignoring somewhat niche artists from the '50s like the Chicago blues players and Little Richard, who are some of my favorites). By 1965 or so the music had become much more forceful. Clapton's appearance on the Bluesbreakers album must have been shocking for the time, and the Rolling Stones were certainly bending people out of shape. Seriously loud amplifiers were finally becoming available and drummers were getting more aggressive. The instrumentalists were finally hitting their stride, and not in a cutesy bandstand way.

Things continued in this direction. As early as 1969 it was clear the music was taking on a new shape: see Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath's debut albums as an example. Metal emerged and the blues became less apparent as an influence. For whatever reason amplifiers' teeth kept growing sharper, and the massive clean tones of the middle period were largely lost. For an example of the latter, listen to Clapton's use of the KT66-tubed Marshall JTM 45/100 in the 'Spoonful' solo on Fresh Cream. There is no grind.

I do listen to some heavier music, but that is primarily big four Seattle grunge as opposed to metal. The heaviest I can go is 'Outshined' by Soundgarden, and even that is something I can only put on once in a while. When the music is too heavy it just grates on me. I believe this is somewhat related to the use of the major pentatonic scale. When major and minor are mixed it creates a sweet and sour tension that is delectable. Harder music omits this softness.

Sure, there are drummers out there who can make Keith Moon look like a chump. I don't doubt Dream Theater's musicianship at all. It's just that the music doesn't sound good. The music I like requires good musicianship but only to a point. Beyond that it just becomes grossly self-indulgent. Music, unlike most sport, is not so easily quantifiable in terms of performance. We want to run faster and lift more weight, but sometimes it's better to play the solo a little slower. Eddie Van Halen, for example, is so far beyond the point of intelligibility that it's just a vague mush to me. Hell, I think Clapton plays too fast sometimes. But I digress.

In sum, 1965 to the early 1970s is approximately the sweet spot in rock music, after the 'Rock Around the Clock' silliness but before things got a little too heated. Exceptions abound, of course, but this is the essence of it for me. Jazz is a different kettle of fish.

[Joe Murphy]

Clapton's appearance on the Bluesbreakers album must have been shocking for the time...

Beano. One of the most influential recordings in all of rock, maybe music. Impressive, informed post, Red. WRT Keith Moon looking like a chump, well, sure but remember pioneers take the arrows and anyone who can make a kit sound like someone kicked it down 7 flights of stairs and bring it home is alright in my book ; {'> and I burned myself out on The Who over 30 years ago...

[hamburgerfan]

Can't leave out Lemmy Kilmister and Philthy Animal.