Gaining muscle without bulking/cutting and staying below 9% body fat. My experiment.

[Akif]

OP: With what purpose did you post this?

[trebor]

I posted it because from what I read, lots of people think you can't gain muscle without doing a bulk/cut cycle that also results in gaining extra fat - and I think otherwise, so I am going to test if I am correct or not.

I think I can do this by riding the wave of adding just enough calories to promote growth without adding so many as to have much fat storage. If I can gain 15% of my bodyweight within 3-4 months, and not raise my percent body fat, then I will consider it as having worked.

[KAG]

Around 1998, I was 5’ 8.5” or so and 135 lbs. Everyone told me I was “too skinny” and underweight. I believed them, though my body mass index was 20.2, and I would have had to lose 12 lbs to be one of the 2% of the US population that is actually underweight.

I can't help but correct this garbage when I see it. The BMI is a big joke. Those people were right, at 135lbs you were seriously underweight. The idea that you believe that you were a "normal" weight because the BMI said so speaks volumes. The BMI is at least 1 whole ranking low at all times.

So far over the last 10 days, I have gained 3.5 lbs while my body fat and waist to hip ratio (6.6% / 0.85) has not changed. This leads me to believe that more than 90% of my gain was muscle.

What about the 3 lbs of muscle in 10 days?

Uh....... no.

[trebor]

I can't help but correct this garbage when I see it. The BMI is a big joke. Those people were right, at 135lbs you were seriously underweight. The idea that you believe that you were a "normal" weight because the BMI said so speaks volumes. The BMI is at least 1 whole ranking low at all times.

I was underweight in terms of being strong or looking good, which is why I went on a weight-gain plan. I was not underweight in that sense of being at medical risk, which is what BMI is set up for.

Waist to hip ratio does a much better job of that than BMI though, and percent body fat is even better - though more complex to measure.

I don't know what you mean by BMI being "1 whole ranking low." I was fat in the belly when my BMI was 24.1 - and my waist-hip ratio was 1.0 - which is at risk of cardiovascular problems - so I am not sure I agree if you are saying that BMI flags people as overweight who are not overweight. As we all know, some very muscular people are flagged as overweight and they are not - and so if your BMI is over 25 but your body fat is below 20%, then BMI failed. It does not work in all cases, but I do think it works for its intended medical screening purpose for more than 99% of the population. Though I wish it were trashed and replaced with waist/hip ratio.

Uh....... no.

I think you are saying I did not gain 3 lbs of muscle in 10 days. I won't know for sure until I go on for a few more weeks and see if it holds up on a graph as a line. There is some novice-factor in play, so I think it is probably true.

[veryhrm]

yeah... it's been a strange week that way.

Trolling or nuts. Gaining 3 lbs of muscle in 10 days? Weird semi-naked posed pictures for all to see? Abnormal at the very very least.

That's a bit harsh. It's conceivable it's just some dedicated person who's genuinely working hard on this ... if he's not a troll the post is not unreasonable in format or content, imho.

OTOH, i don't see how someone can read Starting Strength, speak approvingly of it's philosophy and then come up with THAT workout plan.

OP, considering that you inject insulin anyway you should do some research (if you haven't already) on how that may be used to maximize the impact of your training.

[51M0n]

[QUOTE=veryhrm;475141
That's a bit harsh. It's conceivable [/QUOTE]

No it's not. I don't care what the fuck program you're doing, or what steroids you're taking (and you would need to be taking a ton to get even close to that) you do not gain 3lb of muscle in 10 days. And you sure as hell wouldn't do it when you are squatting 100lb. More than likely he is full of shit (I mean that literally, if you are eating a ton then the weight of food in the gut can easily be a kilo or so).

[trebor]

OTOH, i don't see how someone can read Starting Strength, speak approvingly of it's philosophy and then come up with THAT workout plan.

OP, considering that you inject insulin anyway you should do some research (if you haven't already) on how that may be used to maximize the impact of your training.

I just read about how some people are doing insulin. I thought about if there was a way I could use it, but I have not come up with a way yet. I really don't recommend people mess with it. The difference between a safe dose and a deadly dose is not all that much.

As for my workout plan - as far as I can tell, the things I have in it that are not recommended are pushups, pushdowns, flys, back extensions, and crunches. Reg Park's plan had back extensions. Pushdowns - I have small forearms and wanted to pick something to help that. Pushups - I want to be able to do more of them. And I want to run more marathons and stay lean. What I got out of the plan was that low bar full squats and dead lifts are incredibly beneficial and everyone should be doing them, and I am sold on that. I did not take that to mean I could not add in some other things I wanted to work on.

[trebor]

More than likely he is full of shit (I mean that literally...)

Yes, I know - that is why it will take more weeks to know for sure. The variation in daily weight gives a poor signal to noise ratio. I tried to be as evacuated as possible on each measurement, and I have a SECA medical balance. After 12 weeks we can see how much I gained per week average.

So, knowing what you know, and I am not taking anything but Creatine and Insulin (and I don't know how to use that to my advantage) - what should I be able to gain in 12 weeks considering that I will strive to not let my body fat percent go up much past 7%?

And I plan to squat much more once I am sure my form is decent.

[Jsutt]

Trolling or nuts. Gaining 3 lbs of muscle in 10 days? Weird semi-naked posed pictures for all to see? Abnormal at the very very least.

Overly concerned with fat levels, posed pictures, waxed chest, oil and spray on tan = into bodybuilding = abnormal is pretty much a given. I'm trying to be charitable.

[Oldster]

Gaining muscle without bulking/cutting and staying below 9% body fat. My experiment to see if it is possible…

My history:

I have been thin my whole life. I just found some measurements from April 1985 - age 16:

Weight, 113 lbs.
Height, 5' 7.5.
Chest - 31"

My God, your chest was only slightly smaller than my thigh. I'm struggling with the visual.

That being said, to do what you are wishing for, eat right, work on foundational basic core movements instead of an encyclopedia worth of movements, some worthless and get stronger. What you are wishing for is possible, just not how you are envisioning.

Oh and remember when you are thinking about shortcuts like creatine and insulin, there are no shortcuts.