WL Bar Path

[Rachel Crass]

This is really the crux of the matter for me. It is one thing to say that you believe one way is the best, though you can't prove it or explain why. It is another to repeatedly assert that your way is the right way, though you can't prove it or explain why.

Both are based on faith, but one is arrogant.

Call me arrogant or anything else you want. But I'm not sure it's arrogant to assert that, in my own personal experience and in the experience of my lifters and in the experience of all the National and International lifters, the s-curve is the preferred method of pulling and has led to far greater results than a vertical pull ever has. Argue the means all you want. We care about the end. And until that end = vertical pull makes a podium at the US Nationals (or better, Worlds or Olympics), I'm not sure there is a leg to stand on.

[rumblefish]

Call me arrogant or anything else you want. But I'm not sure it's arrogant to assert that, in my own personal experience and in the experience of my lifters and in the experience

It's not arrogant when you put qualifiers like 'in my experience' and 'I believe'. However qualifiers are often absent in posts on other threads.

the s-curve is the preferred method of pulling

I am not sure anyone is arguing to the contrary. My interpretation is that we are debating whether it should continue to be.

and has led to far greater results than a vertical pull ever has. Argue the means all you want. We care about the end. And until that end = vertical pull makes a podium...

Well, Mark uses Dimas as one example of a vertical pull. Was he not successful? Did he not make the podium? Do you not agree that Dimas is using a vertical pull?

[vanburen]

Call me arrogant or anything else you want. But I'm not sure it's arrogant to assert that, in my own personal experience and in the experience of my lifters and in the experience of all the National and International lifters, the s-curve is the preferred method of pulling and has led to far greater results than a vertical pull ever has. Argue the means all you want. We care about the end. And until that end = vertical pull makes a podium at the US Nationals (or better, Worlds or Olympics), I'm not sure there is a leg to stand on.

There is no leg for the vertical path argument to stand on. ( see McCauley Roman and many others) Delusional:A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.

[Steve Berryman]

the problem is neither side has presented compelling evidence that one way is better than the other

Rip and the vertical-liners (sounds like it should be a cheesy band) have presented a logically and physically sound argument, but without any evidence that shows that it is the optimal way to clean or snatch

the S-curvers have presented plausible theories as well as logical fallacies, such as saying that winners use the S-curve and not the vertical line -- if the majority of trainees in the world are using the S-curve (which doesn't automatically make it correct), then it would be expected that the winners will be using the predominant technique employed... but like i said, they have presented some plausible theories, which, like the vertical-liners, are not backed up by any real evidence


until there is an in-depth biomechanical analysis of the lifts comparing starting positions of the bar, there is no clearly-defined best way

[weightliftingfan1]

Let's introduce a mental component of snatching and C&Jing into the discussion: Having to commit to perform the lift quickly.
I would say that hitting the bar with my hips makes my lifts quicker. I think this is due to a mental effect in which hitting the bar has an absolute minimum amount of force necessary to get the actual hit.

[Steve Hill]

And until that end = vertical pull makes a podium at the US Nationals (or better, Worlds or Olympics), I'm not sure there is a leg to stand on.

Didn't we show you some dude named Dimas at the seminar? Was his 3 O-Games Golds and 3 World Championships not enough?

[Mark Rippetoe]

There is no leg for the vertical path argument to stand on. ( see McCauley Roman and many others) Delusional:A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.

Please post a detailed summary of his argument, that we can read and understand. No one has done this yet. We will not be linking to his video.

Let's introduce a mental component of snatching and C&Jing into the discussion: Having to commit to perform the lift quickly.
I would say that hitting the bar with my hips makes my lifts quicker. I think this is due to a mental effect in which hitting the bar has an absolute minimum amount of force necessary to get the actual hit.

I have never told anyone not to hit the bar with the hips. We use this as a cue almost every time. You fucking people are arguing against YOUR VERSION of my explanation, and you have not prepared yourself with the information. But I suppose it's easier this way.

But I'm not sure it's arrogant to assert that, in my own personal experience and in the experience of my lifters and in the experience of all the National and International lifters, the s-curve is the preferred method of pulling and has led to far greater results than a vertical pull ever has. Argue the means all you want. We care about the end. And until that end = vertical pull makes a podium at the US Nationals (or better, Worlds or Olympics), I'm not sure there is a leg to stand on.

How long have you trained the mid-foot-start vertical first pull? How many of your lifters have used this more than once?

[Simma Park]

I have never told anyone not to hit the bar with the hips. We use this as a cue almost every time. You fucking people are arguing against YOUR VERSION of my explanation, and you have not prepared yourself with the information. But I suppose it's easier this way.

Most people around the Internet and even on this board who make claims about your teaching method/model for pulling have never seen it coached correctly.

[Mark Rippetoe]

And who is this Steve Berryman guy? He has posted and I remember you told me has was a double-namer.

[Simma Park]

And who is this Steve Berryman guy? He has posted and I remember you told me has was a double-namer.

Steve Berryman is stonerider, the guy who lodged a complaint with you about Hurling and threatened him with legal action.