In any case, there have been studies done on rate of muscle gain. Lyle referenced them in the previous debate. They were dismissed because the trainees, supposedly, weren't doing an effective training program. In other words, they weren't doing SS, lol.
I have much more than one or two anecdotes. I assume that you do not. I train more than a dozen people and I correspond with several dozen more over the internet. I'm speaking from personal experience. I assume, again, that you are not. However much value my opinion holds, based purely on the experience and anecdotes of several dozen people, depends on the framework of knowledge that a given reader is operating from. Obviously, for you, that's not much. I don't care, though. Your argument is thoroughly unconvincing to me as well.
Now, we have a 5'10 newbie who weight what I, as a 5'7 young man, weighted before lifting. I looked very skinny, I can't imagine how skinny he must be right now. I had to go up to 180 lbs to start getting chubby. Now we have a Auschwitz victim survivor who wants to eat 3000 kcal and expects to grow well on it.
I'm well aware that I'm being kind of a dick but this stuff bothers me. If there's any demographic that should do GOMAD, it's a 140 lbs 5'10 dude who trains hard. What will happen is that he'll lift, stall at some 200 something squat, lose interest and keep squatting 200 for the rest of his existence and think it's OK because he's an ectomorph or whatever and then we'll find him in 5 years curling in the squat getting in the way of someone who ate ate enough and now squats 400.
Last edited by Carlos Daniel; 07-08-2012 at 11:47 PM. Reason: Explained why I'm being a dick
But, just for the sake of argument, if you saw a study that showed someone using machines and eating 500 calories over maintenance couldn't put on more than 1 lbs. of lbm a week, would you think that the same would hold true for someone doing SS and eating 1000 calories over maintenance?
Oh, and I don't need anecdotes, because I'm not making any kind of claim other than the fact that no one can provide a reasonable basis for the claim you're making.
Actually, no. I haven't seen many (any?) people claim this to be honest. I might be more receptive to the idea if I had.There are plenty of SS coaches that will claim anecdotes of > 1 lbs. a week...yet you flat out dismiss those.
The one he references in the article on genetic muscular potential. Something about lighter framed individuals gaining slower than heavier framed individuals. I might be motivated to find it later, but likely not. The whole pubmed debate-thing is not for me.Links? Cites? I've looked for them, can't find them. I've read multiple articles by Lyle on the subject...no cites.
I readily admit that we are discussing anecdote vs. anecdote here for the most part.But, just for the sake of argument, if you saw a study that showed someone using machines and eating 500 calories over maintenance couldn't put on more than 1 lbs. of lbm a week, would you think that the same would hold true for someone doing SS and eating 1000 calories over maintenance?
There are people who have been doing this just as long on the other side of the fence. Like I said above, and like many others have echoed, I doubt the accuracy of body fat calipers in the Evetts case which throws some question onto all such similar claims made by Rip.You're right...it makes much more sense to listen to anecdotes from a person who's been "training" people for a year or two over those of someone who has been doing it for thirty years. That makes sense.
"training", huh? lol. Let's not even go down that route. If you want to make fun of the "training" that I do, you're barking up the wrong tree. I work with 16y/o's that are probably stronger than you on every lift, at a lighter body weight, and with better body composition.
I never said it was impossible. You just shouldn't expect it. I think you'd be unreasonable to suggest that these types of gains happen with any normalcy.Oh, and I don't need anecdotes, because I'm not making any kind of claim other than the fact that no one can provide a reasonable basis for the claim you're making.
Last edited by Tom Narvaez; 07-08-2012 at 08:57 PM.
Carlos, my starting body fat % is irrelevant in the context of how much weight I added to my lifts. Unless you're trying to argue that going from 135 to 315 adds substantially more LBM than going from 225 to 405.
Carlos, 3000 calories is more likely to add weight to a 140 poun guy than to a 180 pound guy. If he begins to struggle or stall as he moves along, he can add more, which I suggested and he mentioned. But doing GOMAD when you are lifting light weights is complete unnecessary and going to add un-needed bodyfat to someone. This isn't a race and the people who treat it as such tend to get fat, néed to cut, and end up not being nearly as strong as they thought they were after cutting.