World record squat

[joosejpr]

I can't really see the argument for calling knee wraps "raw". Guys can barely walk let alone bend their legs the way they wrap their knees these days. If you are wearing equipment that is doing some of the lifting for you, I don't think you can call it raw.

The most squatted without knee wraps is what, 900lbs? And the record with knee wraps is 1000lbs? How are they not supportive equipment?

No offense to hamburgerfan and Rip, I completely 100% agree.

[simonsky]

I'm on the pro-wraps side in terms of what's raw and what's not, but I like it better when the meet does not allow them.

You here your name on deck, psych yourself up, put on the belt, and squat that barbell. No more worrying about timing when to put the wraps on or when the left one's more loose than the right one. You just get up there and squat.

[Valhall]

A true raw squat (starts at 8min 34s) :-):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWrGRCqBBXU&t=8m34s
(NSFW, its a nude fat man squatting a nude squat "world record")

Classic is what IPF calls raw competing. As such in the "classic" era before ply gear there were wraps. So I can see an argument made for allowing wraps, although I'd rather be without them.

[AdamW]

And belts or quality lifting shoes? They are equipment that clearly make a difference, i.e. assist the lifter.

Belts and shoes don't resist flexion in a joint that has to be extended to complete a lift.

Wraps force the knee to stay straight. When the knee is in flexion, the wrap is applying an extending force. Belts and shoes do not do this.

A squat suit is essentially a "hip wrap", forcing the hip joint to stay extended and applying an extending force when the hip is in flexion. This is the same as a wrap.

In my head I classify equipment as either supportive or assistive. Supportive equipment merely supports a part of the body that stays in a static position during a lift. Belts and wrist wraps fall under this category. Assistive equipment resists flexion at a joint that is moved through a range of motion as part of the lift. Knee wraps, squat suits, bench shirts, elbow wraps, etc. fall under this category.

I'm fine with the fact that a belt and shoes allow you to lift more weight because belts and shoes aren't actively working to move the weight on their own.

[Michael Wolf]

...Assistive equipment resists flexion at a joint that is moved through a range of motion as part of the lift. Knee wraps, squat suits, bench shirts, elbow wraps, etc. fall under this category.

I'm fine with the fact that a belt and shoes allow you to lift more weight because belts and shoes aren't actively working to move the weight on their own.

This is pretty much how I see the divide: does the equipment allow you to express your own full strength, or does it add to your strength, effectively supplying you with greater force production than your muscles alone can produce? The former is raw, the latter is gear.

[elVarouza]

I am a little shocked that all you libertarians want to demand conformity to your personal beliefs/standards. It’s a hobby… there is no money to be made, no gold medal, no real celebrity status to be earned. Why shouldn’t we have like 10,000 federations, with different rules? If people don’t compete in them, then they will cease to exist, so obviously there is a demand… capitalism, right?

This is a common argument. Maybe PL is your hobby, but it's a real competition for many others. PL is a sport with set rules, like squatting below parallel. Competing in some backyard fed that doesn't follow the rules and claiming a "world record" is like playing pond hockey and claiming a new world record for goals scored. It has nothing to do with personal beliefs and standards. It's a sport with rules. Rules that are actually followed by...maybe 3 feds?

In my area USAPL only puts on one, maybe two meets a year. And if you compete with a team or a group, then only half of you will compete at a time, so we have to go to a fed that puts on more meets a year.

If USAPL was the only fed in the USA (or one of maybe two) instead of being one of 40 feds, there would be more USAPL meets. Regardless, I agree it's frustrating if you want to continue to lift in the same fed year round.

Bottom line is that for a vast majority of competitors, competing is fun and a way to challenge yourself, and the only thing that matters is hitting PR’s… so in my mind, it doesn't matter what the next guys is wearing or how deep he is squatting...

But that's not competing. That's lifting for fun. There isn't anything wrong with that, but it's not competing. You're not competing if you don't care that someone who half-squatted more weight than you in a suit of armor claims that he beat your squat. You're just lifting.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I am a little shocked that all you libertarians want to demand conformity to your personal beliefs/standards. It’s a hobby… there is no money to be made, no gold medal, no real celebrity status to be earned. Why shouldn’t we have like 10,000 federations, with different rules? If people don’t compete in them, then they will cease to exist, so obviously there is a demand… capitalism, right?

When you Marxists get enough control that the government starts regulating squat depth, conformity demands will be an actual topic of discussion. Till then, we'll just bitch about the bastardization of our sport.

[JRC]

When you Marxists get enough control that the government starts regulating squat depth, conformity demands will be an actual topic of discussion. Till then, we'll just bitch about the bastardization of our sport.

Damn, I was just trying to point out a a little irony, no need to call me nasty names.

On a serious note, Mark, haven't people been arguing about this very topic since the mid 70's? I know I read somewhere about how in the first national meet, they allowed knee wraps, then the next year they were disallowed, then like 2 years they brought them back again. Granted, the knee wraps at the time were like ace bandages (so I've been told) and no where to the extreme of todays difference, but on some level these debates have existed since the beginning. Now that I think about it, wasn't the first fracture in Powerlifting due to arguments over whether they should be drug tested? I forget what it was called before, but eventually split into the USPF and ADFPA (or something like that).

[Geir]

Nope. Just wanted to show off my fellow norwegian. Well, actually - why is'nt powerlifting an olympic sport? I find that hard to understand, when you have things like judo and volleyball going on.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Judo and volleyball don't use incomprehensible-to-the-viewing-public supportive gear and spotters. Powerlifters are associated with steroids. There is already a barbell sport in the Olympics. All the weight classes would require too high a medal count. Enough?