Strength training for pitchers and the baseball establishment

[stronger]

All,

Here is an interesting Sports Illustrated article on Dylan Bundy, 19 year old top Baltimore Orioles pitching prospect. One of his key distinctions is that he isn't built like a twig and isn't coddled:

Says Denver (his father), "I've been criticized for working the boys that hard. I wasn't hard because I was doing every bit of it too. I never broke 'em or anything. Most of the time they were laughing."
Denver wanted to teach the boys the value and health benefits of hard work, but there was something else: He wanted pitching to be easy compared with the workouts. "The downside to the last 20 years is it's more about therapy than working out," Denver says. "I'm going against the grain on that. You work harder than in the games, then you can use your mind to focus."
Dylan's workouts now include heavy weights, especially to strengthen his legs to compensate for not having the leverage advantage that comes with height. The Orioles were so concerned about the intensity of those workouts that in spring training they assigned former Oriole Brady Anderson, now a special assistant to Duquette, to work out with Bundy for two weeks. He signed off.
"People ask me all the time," Denver says, "Is he country strong from digging holes?' I tell them Dylan is a gym rat. He loves to work out."

I thought the part I bolded was interesting, since the relationship (or lack of) between strength training and sports have been discussed ad nauseum on this board, and it will be interesting to see how he fares. The baseball establishment are among the worst -- high school teams are still running miles and not doing any meaningful strength programs. Pitchers especially can stand to be stronger, since their movement is so destructive to the body.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that -- I'm a lifelong Orioles fan so I need to have some hope in my life.

article here: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ndy/index.html

[Mark Rippetoe]

I'm trying real hard to be interested in this one too, but I fail again. Where's the part about barbells?

[stronger]

I'm trying real hard to be interested in this one too, but I fail again. Where's the part about barbells?

on the first page it mentions he squats 500. I haven't checked his depth though. It's more interesting from a strength philosophy standpoint than anything. There are a lot of parallels between the ingrained philosophy issues of baseball and American weightlifting

you don't have to be interested Rip, but I appreciate the attempt. You're playing the part of Rush Limbaugh on Open Line Friday

[Mark Rippetoe]

I assure you that no one has checked his depth.

[Brodie Butland]

6 feet, 195 lbs, and a 500 lbs. squat at 19 years old?

I'm throwing the flag here.

[Hank]

A little off the main topic, but a guy that I work with has a son who pitches for his high school team. In the off season the boy decides he wants to try out a local crossfit gym for some off-season training. So I asked the guy here at work exactly what kind of “training” his son was getting there. He said, “Well, you know a lot of cardio stuff. Box jumps and some other stuff for leg strength. But they said they definitely don’t want him doing any kind of overhead stuff because he is a pitcher.” I asked him if they meant high rep snatches for time, or number of rounds, or something silly like that. He said they didn’t want him doing any overhead stuff. No Presses or anything like that because he is a pitcher. I tried to explain how ridiculous that philosophy was but all I got was a blank stare.

[Mark Rippetoe]

MOST (certainly not all) trainers you find in MOST (but not all) CrossFit affiliates were "prepared" as coaches by attending a CF Level I weekend seminar. They were selling cars a couple of months ago. This is one such affilliate.

[Michael Wolf]

I believe it's been mentioned in your Q&A before that Eric Cressey, who is widely known for his successful S&C programs for baseball players (and who actually does train them for strength), doesn't have any of his "overhead athletes" (including pitchers) press. At all. Ever.

Cressey's analysis (summed up in a fairly succinct 2:30 video here) is reasonably well thought out, compared to that of most CF affiliates and certainly the coaches who were selling cell-phones or cars before taking their Level 1 Cert and becoming instant experts in a dozen modalities.

However, it's not as thorough and well thought out (and simple) as yours in SS:BBT3. Learning to press - correctly, with the active shoulder, as you teach it - should safely and effectively solve all these issues and allow overhead athletes to press, get strong, and thus get better.

Not holding my breath for the establishment to realize this, but at least what they're doing with Cressey is probably better than what they'd do at most Crossfit boxes or other S&C coaches. But it's clearly still lacking a major component in being as good a strength program as it could be if they pressed.

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

I have a rower, a football player/shotputter, an MMA fighter, and a triathlete in my gym right now.....every other competitive athlete that I am currently training is either a swimmer or baseball player. Both sports are supposedly "overhead sports" and pressing will supposedly ruin their shoulders. All my baseball players press every other workout (including the pitchers) and the swimmers will press EVERY workout until they have their first miss and then they start alternating with the bench. If the pitchers are having arm/shoulder pain when they start here then they also press EVERY workout until they have their first miss.

I have had parents bring their kids to me that have spent THOUSANDS of dollars on PT and orthopedic appointments for their swimmer's "shoulder problems." Generally by the end of week 2, the "shoulder problems" are completely gone. "Shoulder problems" in this instance can be simply defined as "WEAK JOINT EXPOSED TO REPETITIVE MOTION."

This myth about eliminating overhead movements for "overhead athletes" is ridiculous and I don't know where it came from. In almost every instance the press will both prevent and cure most minor shoulder problems.

I really really hate to make generalizations like this......but I believe that over the past 5 years or so I have collected enough data on female swimmers to fairly confidently say that a female swimmer age 15-20 who can press a minimum of 75lbs x 5 WILL NOT experience any chronic shoulder pain/injury related to swimming. I believe that this generalization applies to both distance and sprint competitors.

[poppunk]

on the first page it mentions he squats 500.

Vinny Testaverde (an NFL QB who played to "old age") supposedly squatted 500 in his younger days and even in his advanced years lifted with the linemen on the team. He had this to say about squatting:

Testaverde’s tireless workout regimen includes cardiovascular exercises and lifting, specifically squats for strength in his legs.

“People see quarterbacks and they think, ‘Oh, he has a strong arm,’ but really the strength in your arm doesn’t just come from your arm,” Testaverde said. “It comes from your hips and your legs. I think the squatting has helped me tremendously to stay healthy and to have that longevity.”

If squats helped with his reads and decision making, he would have been a lot better than mediocre.