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Thread: Need test subjects for new 4x4 program

  1. #1
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    Default Need test subjects for new 4x4 program

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    I was wondering if anyone is interested in running a new 4x4 program I came up with? It would probably be best for an intermediate level lifter (or a little more advanced), but I do think you could make some good gains on it even as a more novice lifter.

    It is a basic upper/lower split that will be run 4x per week. It works as a 3 week cycle (light/heavy/heavy) where you will work up to a top heavy set. You will then do the 4x4 dropsets with the last set being AMRAP. You don't have to go to total failure, but it should be a challenging last set.

    Here is the breakdown:

    1. You will need to determine your 1RM. Once that is done, you need to calculate 70%, 80%, and 90% of your 1RM. We will use those to set up the base of the program. As an example, lets say you squat 315. The three numbers would be (220, 250, 280).

    2. The first week of squats would be the light week. So you would use 250 for the top single (or double if it is easy), and 220 for the 4x4+ dropsets. All 4 of the main lifts would be the same way. The next week you would do your first heavy day 280, and you would add +5lbs to the 4x4+ sets (225). The third week you would add +10lbs for 290, and the 4x4+ would be 230. Here is how a 12 week cycle would look.

    250/220, 280/225, 290/230, 270/235, 300/240, 310/245, 290/250, 320/255, 330/260, 310/265, 340/270, 350/275...

    3. Let's assume that after 12 weeks things are starting to get real hard (if they aren't you can just keep running it). You would then ramp up to a top max on the 13th week. Let's say you hit 365. You would then recalculate your 70%/80%/90% (255/290/325 rounding down) and start over again.

    4. For your lighter upper body lifts, 5lb jumps (2.5 on the 4x4 could also be an option). Lets say your 1RM bench is 225 (155/180/205). You could work it like this:

    180/155, 205/157.5, 210/160, 190/162.5, 215/165, 220/167.5, 200/170, 225/172.5, 230/175, 210/177.5, 235/180, 240/182.5

    Another option would be to run 10/5lbs jumps for the first 3-6 weeks and then go back to 5/2.5lbs for the second half of the cycle.

    5. The split! Here is the basic framework for the routine. M/Th are upper body and T/F or Sat is the lower. Here is an example routine:

    M- Overhead Press (1x1 or 2 reps if easy, 4x4+), 3-4 upper body assistance exercises (3 sets of 8-12 reps) I pick things like: Weighted Chins or Pulldowns, Reverse Flies, DB Curls, etc.).

    T- Deadlift (1x1 or 2, 4x4+), Light Squats of a different variety (I am doing paused squats up to a top triple), +1-2 assistance exercises

    Th- Bench (1x1 or 2, 4x4+), 3-4 upper body assistance exercises (3 sets of 8-12 reps) I pick things like: BB or Machine Rows (nothing that involves too much lower back), Tricep Extensions, Shoulder isolation stuff (muscle snatch, etc.).

    F- Squat (1x1 or 2, 4x4+), Light Power Cleans (optional), 1-2 assistance lifts I do things like Leg Curls, etc.

    Basically this is the two steps forward/one step back approach. You cycle to hit a peak 1RM and then reload and start all over again (this time with a higher max). I have done a few cycles thus far and have been happy with the results.

    If anyone is interested in more info, please let me know. I can also help with assistance exercise ideas to help weak areas of the main lifts. If interested, I can give form pointers for PL style lifts (e.g. lift the most poundage).

    Thanks in advance! :-)

  2. #2
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    This is very similar to my own (patented ;-) ) 1337 system (leet huh?) that I ran for a lot of last year.

    Basically work up to a heavy single, then down 10kg 3x3, down 10kg 6-8 reps backdown. I liked it a lot. I based it on the Coan-Philippi deadlift routine, but simplified it.

  3. #3
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    Yeah, that is what I sort of did too. I pieced together a few different ideas and tried to simplify it. I tried to get the heavy rep and 4x4 moving up at a different rate, so by end the end of the cycle it isn't too much work.

  4. #4
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    Not sure if I'm the type of lifter who would benefit. I am currently doing TM for my squat and trying to eke out a little more LP for bench/press. Once I need to get my bench and press to intermediate, I might consider it. Although it seems like it will be slower progress than TM, so maybe I'll do a run of TM before trying it. Thoughts appreciated.

    Lifts:
    Squat: 345x4
    Deadlift: 385x2 (380x5 2 weeks ago so this was a bad day)
    Press: 135x5,5,5
    Bench: 225x5,5,5
    Last edited by RussB; 12-04-2012 at 10:25 AM.

  5. #5
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    It would depend on how fast you are moving up on TM. If someone was adding 2.5lbs per week for 3x5's on TM, I think this would keep up with that. If they are adding 5 (upper body), then it might favor TM. This is assuming you can keep moving up every week of course. The idea behind the program is that the light weeks will keep the progress going longer. Right now I unfortunately only have my results to look at, so more test data is needed for sure. :-)

  6. #6
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    I think that would work. It will be interesting to see how the conditioning + lifting goes.

    So the maxes you posted are actually 90% of your real maxes right? Use your real maxes instead, since you start at 90% anyways (for the heavy day). The idea is to ramp it up over 12-16 weeks, hit a new 1RM and then start all over again. It works in waves like that vs 5/3/1 which starts really light and continues to slowly climb up over time. This program should get you peaking for singles 4 times a year or so.

  7. #7
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    Ok, great! :-)

    I think the numbers look a little off though. Assuming a 140 max, the starting numbers would be (100/112.5/125). With those weights, I would start with the 5lb/2.5lb jumps if you have the plates. A 12 week cycle would look like this:

    112.5/100, 125/102.5, 130/105, 122.5/107.5, 135/110, 140/112.5, 132.5/115, 145/117.5, 150/120, 142.5/122.5, 155/125, 160/127.5

    It looks like you would be cracking through your PR by week 8. Now lets say you just make it to week 9 and can't do 12, that is ok. Then reset using 150 or whatever you hit as your max and do it again.

    If it still doesn't make sense (the loading parameters) let me know. Basically you just add 10lbs every time you hit the light week (or 20 if you are taking 10lb jumps), and add 5lbs (or 10lbs) every time you do a heavy week.

  8. #8
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    Allent, here is what the other lifts would look like:

    DL: 455 max (315/360/405), 12 week cycle: 360/315, 405/320, 415/325, 380/330, 425/335, 435/340, 400/345, 445/350, 455/355, 420/360, 465/365, 475/370 * For DL's, if you need to get a little more recoup on your light week, just do 4x4... the last set doesn't have to be AMRAP. On the heavy weeks do 4x4+ though.

    Squat: 345 max (240/275/310), 12 week cycle: 275/240, 310/245, 320/250, 295/255, 330/260, 340/265, 315/270, 350/275, 360/280, 335/285, 370/290, 380/295

    Both of those were 12 week cycles with 10/5lb jumps. After 9 weeks you should already be over your max, and you will know if this is working or not. Hopefully you can hit all 12 weeks before a deload. Since you are doing all the conditioning too, be sure to get adequate rest/food. I would also take it pretty easy on the assistance squats on DL day. Just ramp up to a top set of 3 (pretty light) and call it a day on those.

    Bench: 180 max (125/145/165), 12 week cycle: 145/125, 165/127.5, 170/130, 155/132.5, 175/135, 180/137.5, 165/140, 185/142.5, 190/145, 175/147.5, 195/150, 200/152.5 *I used 5/2.5lb jumps for bench.

    So after 12 weeks, you could be at (testing on 13th week, maybe lay off conditioning for that week):

    Bench- 205+
    Squat- 385+
    DL- 480+
    OHP- 165+

    Let me know what you are thinking about for assistance work too. What worked for you on 5/3/1?

  9. #9
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    I got ya. Well for the lower body lifts you would be ok with 10/5lb jumps, and you could round off your percentages to make that work. For upper body, it might be a good idea to get them. Knee wraps sound nice! :-) I have some ideas on how to tweak the system for those too. Basically your 1rm percentages will be from your wrapped max. The 4x4 would be from your raw percentage (so need both). I am going to try that after I max out on my current squat program. I am doing the 4x4's for my other 3 lifts and love it!

  10. #10

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    starting strength coach development program
    11-8-2012/all time - Training that improved to date
    Squat 275/300 - Beginning StrongLifts/Linear progression 5x5, 3x5, 3x3

    Bench 195/195 - Beginning StrongLifts/Linear progression 5x5, 3x5; 2 complete 3 week cycles of Smolov Jr 365 to 405(gym), 385 to 425(gym) and 1 cycle less last 2 workouts 405 to 430(meet)

    Dead 270/275 - Beginning StrongLifts/Linear progression 1x5

    Total 740/770

    Goals
    Compete at AAPF Nationals Raw on April 27-28 Grand Rapids, Mi to qualify for AWPC Worlds
    Compete at AWPC Worlds Championships August 29 through September 1 Idaho Falls, ID

    Break 140+(SHW) Open records for each lift and or total. I believe these can be broken at Nationals or Worlds.
    Squat 317.5
    Bench 195/210
    Dead 310

    Would this program work for me? If so, I am game. If not, which one would be better?
    Currently I am too fat to deadlift conventional, considering switching to sumo or hybrid taking same stance as squat. Not sure how this would effect programming. Also coming off of sinus infection and have not lifted much since 11/8. Might take a week or two to get back up to speed. For press assume 225 max.

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